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  • Dezxman17
    replied
    Interesting. I wonder how long that stone structure has been there? I like these type of rabbit holes. The ones that can create a totally different thought process. I try to use deductive reasoning to reduce the amount of time spent in the hole. Check and see when the sign was built, this design is classic and used quite often.

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  • Zapster
    replied
    Originally posted by Dezxman17 View Post
    I will say nobody has done a better job at trying to convince me that it is not New Orleans. What about Preservation? Does this term match any clues there? Preservation Hall is well known in New Orleans. This clue is very important.
    There is a "Preservation Park" in St. Louis (though it's about 10 miles west of Forest Park):
    https://aboutstlouis.com/local/parks...missouri-63141

    Some similarity between the double arching "keyhole" shape of the sign and the corresponding shape in the illustration's clock:

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  • Dezxman17
    replied
    They made many clocks of this style. They were very popular. The one in your picture was probably made in America. The builder did not know Roman numerals, so it was most likely an American builder. This is just my quick observation without doing any research. I could be wrong. The Artwork gives me the impression of European design. New Orleans has a rich history of diverse influence. I think a more western theme would come into play for St. Louis artwork. The Arch is important, but what is the city known for? Culture of the location is expressed in the Art.

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  • Dezxman17
    replied
    Also what some say is a wolf is a horse to me. Then you can notice a circular shape around the Horse. There is an oval horse track right next to City Park.

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  • Dezxman17
    replied
    I will say nobody has done a better job at trying to convince me that it is not New Orleans. What about Preservation? Does this term match any clues there? Preservation Hall is well known in New Orleans. This clue is very important.

    Leave a comment:


  • TheGoldHunter
    replied
    I have a place in New Orleans I'd like to check but I know it won't be anytime soon. Any of you guys in the area? If interested, I'll let you know what I think and you can decide if it's worth it. I will make the same deal with you on Charleston and Montreal.

    I also have a place to check in San Francisco that the parks department is going to help me with but they aren't doing anything related to that until covid is over.

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  • Zapster
    replied
    Originally posted by Dezxman17 View Post
    Nice work Zapster, that is a good rabbit hole. This hunt is so detailed that you can actually come up with legitimate rabbit hole solves. There are just too many clues in this one for it to not be New Orleans.
    If there are, I've yet to run across them. Nothing I've seen suggested as evidence for New Orleans is particularly compelling to me. 90 is about the only solid clue, but it works for both cities, while I've also got 38 in the illustration to cover the latitude.

    St. Louis has an obvious checkerboard explanation that New Orleans lacks, and the Gateway Arch (St. Louis' most recognized landmark) is reasonably found in the illustration, highlighted in Palencar blue. The shape of Missouri is secreted in the checkerboard pattern (mirror-reversed) in far more convincing fashion than the absurd claim that the wolf shape a couple squares below mimics Louisiana.

    For a city to have all these features represented AND happen to house a historical clock in their Art Museum that matches the clock in the illustration in nearly every major detail sounds to me a bit beyond a simple rabbit hole.

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  • Dezxman17
    replied
    Nice work Zapster, that is a good rabbit hole. This hunt is so detailed that you can actually come up with legitimate rabbit hole solves. There are just too many clues in this one for it to not be New Orleans. I too have traveled the long road of rabbit chasing. It is fun to learn the history, but also a waist of time. After I posted the solve to this one I realized that the other bridge at city park could also be in play. It is in that area on the south side of city park. The horse track. The dueling oak. The statues at the park and the history are behind this one. Gunrunner pointed out some clues that I have not noticed. Even gives me more reason to believe I am right. I may dive back into this one if nobody wants to go look. Thanks for the input, and I will look closer at your info.

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  • Zapster
    replied
    Okay, the clock. Let me start by saying that the 29 in the upper right didn't seem to have an obvious connection to either New Orleans or St. Louis, though I did note that if appended to the 90 as a decimal (90.29) it matches the longitude of Forest Park in St. Louis where the 1904 World's Fair was held. However, my feeling is Byron was more likely to give any coordinate clues as degrees and minutes rather than decimal degrees, so I write this off to coincidence.

    The latitude of Forest Park (38) can be found in the upper left corner of the clock face if you tilt your head to the left: small "3" on its side next to the P of PRESERVATION, and a larger "8" adjacent to the "19" in the corner. Since Byron has used statues in prior solutions, I took a close look at the statue of Louis XIV on horseback in front of the St. Louis Art Museum. (You can argue that Louis XIV might be hinted at in the illustration by looking at the clock's Roman numerals that are visible on either side of the mask: IX and V. Flip the IX upside down and combine them: XIV.) The pedestal that King Louis rides on has contours similar to that on the edges of the clock in the illustration. But quite by accident, I discovered there is an antique clock inside the St. Louis Art Museum that is a dead ringer for the clock in the illustration: it's called the "Tall Clock":

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    Compare the clocks: same Roman numerals, same big full Moon above the clock dial, flowers in all four corners of the clock face (just the upper two corners of the illustration's clock face -- December narcissus flower), and extremely similar ornate hour hand. And now we come to the "29" that I mentioned above: it's there on the Tall Clock in the same location (used for the moon's phase -- 29 days in a lunar month). Finally, compare the triple arcs of wood at the top of the Tall Clock to the same in the illustration, as well as the curving inward slope and profile of the wood just below the clock face leading to the tall rectangular base.

    There is one notable difference between the clocks: the Tall Clock has IIII for four o'clock, where as the illustration has IV.

    Anyway, here's a zoomable link to the clock at SLAM:

    https://www.slam.org/collection/objects/33451/

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  • Zapster
    replied
    Ahh, but you see, I've found the actual clock upon which the illustration is based. Out walking the dog, but I'll post it when I return. Even the handful of people who favor St. Louis had not found this clock, but were locked into St. Louis for other good (but not convincing) reasons. The clock changes that.

    About the only substantive things in the illustration that match New Orleans are the "90," the French connection and the Harlequin mask (Mardi Gras). But 90 is the decimal longitude for BOTH cities, both cities have an obvious French connection, and the shape of the mask could just as easily be a match to the St. Louis Gateway Arch (upside down). The catenary arc is highlighted in ethereal blue -- a Palencar trademark in the three solved puzzles. The red and cyan checkerboard could be a nod to the iconic red and white checkerboard of Ralston-Purina, headquartered in St. Louis. These even collectively weren't enough to convince me of St. Louis. The clock changes that.

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  • Gunrunner
    replied
    Originally posted by Zapster View Post
    Despite popular opinion, the city corresponding to Image 7 is not New Orleans, it's St. Louis, Missouri.
    And there you go, off to Montana again, when everyone knows it was in Yellowstone. ;-)

    Weird that I should happen to check this old topic just hours after you posted, but I'll have to disagree with you here, Zap. Check the street names in the upper left for "where jewels abound," and the name of the district in the lower right where the dog's head is. I think I've got a match here that can't be beat. If you zoom in on GE you'll see the moon and stars just where they should be -- a circular play area amidst scattered picnic tables. "Fifteen rows down to the ground" is the elevation at the top of the levee (15') down to sea level (Lake Pontchartrain). I'm pretty satisfied with where I want to check -- if I'm ever down there with a few hours to spare -- but I'm not in any rush and wouldn't much care if someone else got there first.

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  • Zapster
    replied
    Despite popular opinion, the city corresponding to Image 7 is not New Orleans, it's St. Louis, Missouri.

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  • Dezxman17
    replied
    Originally posted by Coinaster View Post
    Ah Yes, I was looking too deep.... Thanks... You won't believe what I am fixing to PM you.... And as such, now I am really positive about my solve.... I had 3 locations that were possibilities, but I just narrowed them to one! I hope you will keep it confidential....
    I will keep any info anyone wants to send confidential. I want somebody to find it.

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  • Coinaster
    replied
    Ah Yes, I was looking too deep.... Thanks... You won't believe what I am fixing to PM you.... And as such, now I am really positive about my solve.... I had 3 locations that were possibilities, but I just narrowed them to one! I hope you will keep it confidential....
    Last edited by Coinaster; 08-12-2020, 11:14 AM.

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  • Dezxman17
    replied
    I will work on those screen shots. I have been busy this week. At M 2.5 just above the purple inside the sleeve. At the bottom of that square is the top of a shell. In that same bottom left corner is an N with an arrow pointing up. above that shell is a side view of open mouth shell. Also the top part of the shell is the bridge. So the N is pointing to the bridge and the W at the top of the square is telling me to go west. This art is like a picture you would see differently if you hold it at a different angle and what distance you look at it. A collage. I played around with zooming in and out at many different positions to get the best view. I think this was done on purpose and it does cause some confusion. Get yourself a really good magnifying glass, and 3d glasses also help to separate the colors. The shell at M6.5 to seven is shaped like a hand held fan. The kind you can spread out, kinda like an oriental paper fan that opens up. Try not to zoom in too much because the pixels blur the art. The top of that shell is also the arched bridge. Comes in two's. You have to look at it really good.

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