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Can the blaze be pre-determined...?

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  • #76
    Originally posted by 1keyword View Post

    I haven't found it, and would definitely drive to New Mexico to see Forrest and give him his bracelet if i did. and no I do not work for the parks service... nor am i a government employee. Just an interesting scenario ha, would it be the first time that a government agency or it's employee's exhibited corruption and disregarded laws?
    I hear ya ! I would actually get a kick out of seeing crooked fed workers do the perp walk. But if you find you might want to be cautious driving and not get pulled over by police especially sheriff office. They have a habit of confiscating far more property than the law gave them instruction to do. They do so under forfeiture laws designed to interfere with criminal activity , it's profits and how it is funded.

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    • #77
      I have had many WWWH's in my quest.. my final conclusion was that it referenced an area with a multitude of thermal features hence waters plural. I just found a place called Warm Creek that dumps into Soda Butte Creek the canyon there heads south to the Lamar River Valley before that it was Madison then West Thumb then Norris and before that Tower Junction at the intersection of highway 89 and 212 referencing water temps. I've tried comparing all of them to see if one was more important than the other, I think the clues are supposed to lead you to HOB and once you have that than the rest of the poem applys to that location. Forrest has stated that if you know where HOB is then you could walk right to the treasure.. so at this point I wonder if it matters. If i have HOB and WWWH was intended to denote what area in the Rocky mountains to search in then it's completed it's task by narrowing down the possible locations for home HOB?

      also a good argument would be that if it didn't draw you to a specific area or region then it would leave the entire US rocky's open and it cant be that, it has to be an much smaller area, the box is only 10X10 for chris't sake I used to think you needed knowledge of something at the location of WWWH but maybe it just places you in the general vicinity and it's that simple..
      Last edited by 1keyword; 07-02-2019, 05:38 PM.

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      • #78
        Originally posted by TreasureCodex View Post

        I hear ya ! I would actually get a kick out of seeing crooked fed workers do the perp walk. But if you find you might want to be cautious driving and not get pulled over by police especially sheriff office. They have a habit of confiscating far more property than the law gave them instruction to do. They do so under forfeiture laws designed to interfere with criminal activity , it's profits and how it is funded.
        point taken... I would take lots of photo's of the treasure in my possession sent to friends via email sent to Forrest and posted on line (with out my face or location)

        "They do so under forfeiture laws designed to interfere with criminal activity" I think that that's a risk anyone would be subject to given the nature of said treasure.

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        • #79
          If the poem contains all the information needed to locate the treasure chest, and the blaze is a clue, then I would suspect it can be (predetermined).

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          • #80
            Originally posted by M.c.B. View Post
            I think this can help us find the last clue.

            Q - Can the blaze be pre-determined by the poem or can it only be determined at the search area?- becky

            A - "Becky, you are a rascal to ask that question and I have been sitting here for about fifteen minutes trying to decide what to say. Well, it has been thirty minutes now and I think I’ll pass on the question. Sorry.f"
            neither

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            • #81
              Originally posted by 1keyword View Post

              point taken... I would take lots of photo's of the treasure in my possession sent to friends via email sent to Forrest and posted on line (with out my face or location)

              "They do so under forfeiture laws designed to interfere with criminal activity" I think that that's a risk anyone would be subject to given the nature of said treasure.
              ask them, they'll tell you, they WILL take the treasure

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              • #82
                Originally posted by 1keyword View Post
                I have had many WWWH's in my quest.. my final conclusion was that it referenced an area with a multitude of thermal features hence waters plural. I just found a place called Warm Creek that dumps into Soda Butte Creek the canyon there heads south to the Lamar River Valley before that it was Madison then West Thumb then Norris and before that Tower Junction at the intersection of highway 89 and 212 referencing water temps. I've tried comparing all of them to see if one was more important than the other, I think the clues are supposed to lead you to HOB and once you have that than the rest of the poem applys to that location. Forrest has stated that if you know where HOB is then you could walk right to the treasure.. so at this point I wonder if it matters. If i have HOB and WWWH was intended to denote what area in the Rocky mountains to search in then it's completed it's task by narrowing down the possible locations for home HOB?

                also a good argument would be that if it didn't draw you to a specific area or region then it would leave the entire US rocky's open and it cant be that, it has to be an much smaller area, the box is only 10X10 for chris't sake I used to think you needed knowledge of something at the location of WWWH but maybe it just places you in the general vicinity and it's that simple..
                If you're drawn to that area, I think Icebox Canyon is more "Fenn-y" as a WWWH. It still feeds you to the same area. I just don't care for the Lamar Ranger Station as a home of Brown (for instance) since I'm a firm "no structures" guy.

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                • #83
                  Originally posted by Zapster View Post

                  If you're drawn to that area, I think Icebox Canyon is more "Fenn-y" as a WWWH. It still feeds you to the same area. I just don't care for the Lamar Ranger Station as a home of Brown (for instance) since I'm a firm "no structures" guy.
                  even as a put in point? as in put in below the HOB then no paddle up your creek for north using HOB as a starting point...? and interesting fact, between Cooke city and Soda Butte is Warm creek picnic area, It's right where Warm Creek dumps into Soda Butte Creek. If I ever head back out there maybe I'll start from Cooke City stop at Warm Creek and have a picnic eat a sandwich and have a grapete soda.. wonder if they sell them in Cooke City. Bonus Factoid... 212 from Cooke city to 89 and on up to Gardner is kept open year round so the folks in Cooke city can shop for supply's and that means that Lamar is accessible in the winter time meaning that its a place where Forrest could go any time of the year and walk right to the box, in fact Yellowstone forever has all kinds of winter classes and outings including hikes up to the wolf pens. there's also a really decent dirt road that runs up behind the ranch through a firing range (Rangers only) above the ranch and takes you a good half way up to the pens. I've been out there and people HAVE driven up that road and parked above the firing range and they were not park employees.
                  Last edited by 1keyword; 07-04-2019, 02:19 AM.

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                  • #84
                    Originally posted by khan View Post

                    ask them, they'll tell you, they WILL take the treasure
                    Well I wouldn't ask them for one, two I don't think that they would have legal grounds unless i was dumb enough to tell them i found it in the park, and... If they did and it was in my possession and they took it with out knowing whether or not it was found in the park then it would be an illegal seizure of personal property.. some cops do what they want and are crooks sure, But that's not what were talking about here they cant just assume that it was taken from park grounds just because your in the park any more than they can assume that your phone, your car or anything else on your person was stolen from the park or was found there. they need to see you do it or you need to admit to it being found there. they can say whatever they want in the news tell park visitors what ever they like but if they cant prove you took it from park property they have no case and it is not illegal to posses treasure, a famous one or not. if they confiscate it they cant hold it if they cant prove you committed a crime, infact the abandoned property laws trove laws none of that apply's unless or until they prove that it was left in the park or you admit to it. there is no law stating that it's illegal to transport gold and or treasure through Yellowstone and Forrest has not said that it's hidden there. maybe it was found in Gardner, or Cooke City or West Yellowstone. If there is no proof of any law broken it's not legal for them to take it from you and they will have no grounds to do so that will hold up in a court of law period. gold isn't a controlled substance like coke it's not illegal to posses, Its not like cash where you can assign an immediate cash value to it..??? so why would they take it, because the park superintendent stated that if the treasure were found in Yellowstone that it would belong to the park? the words "hey ranger guys check out this treasure that i found in Yellowstone" would never come out of my mouth if i found it... catch me pulling it out of the dirt before i put it in my back pack and witness it then they totally have a case.. Because of a thing called Law.

                    There was a hit man for the cartels who was arrested in 2013, he committed several murders here in California 36 in total across the United States. the cops new it was him but had they arrested him with no certain evidence to convict him they would just have to let him go, they have 48 hrs to charge you with a crime or they HAVE to let you go so they had nothing conclusive and did nothing, he continued to go go free until he was busted in Alabama for murder and then confessed to the other crime's (Jose Manuel Martinez ).. were not talking murder were talking treasure and they still have to follow law and have a case.. no proof of any law broken then no case regardless of what the truth is. Like Fenn said what if there isn't an issue... If i find it I'm not telling a Ranger I found it in the park, and just like with any other cop from any agency I'll sit there with them for 48 hrs keep my mouth shut until they have to release me and my property and or find one of any number of attorneys that would be chomping at the bit to take on what would most likely become a high profile case, Pro Bono with damages, the feds know that and there not going to waste there or your time if they have no case.. possession of treasure is not a crime.
                    Last edited by 1keyword; 07-04-2019, 02:14 AM.

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                    • #85
                      Originally posted by ksfromKS View Post
                      If the poem contains all the information needed to locate the treasure chest, and the blaze is a clue, then I would suspect it can be (predetermined).
                      I agree, but want to add. The poem should contain all information needed to know where to go, within several steps, before leaving home. This applies whether one believes the treasure is indicated at the end of verse 4, compared to the end of verse 6. I am convinced that one uses the complete poem (therefore, the chest referenced at the end of verse 4 is not as commomly interpretted).

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                      • #86
                        Originally posted by 1keyword View Post

                        Well I wouldn't ask them for one, two I don't think that they would have legal grounds unless i was dumb enough to tell them i found it in the park, and... If they did and it was in my possession and they took it with out knowing whether or not it was found in the park then it would be an illegal seizure of personal property.. some cops do what they want and are crooks sure, But that's not what were talking about here they cant just assume that it was taken from park grounds just because your in the park any more than they can assume that your phone, your car or anything else on your person was stolen from the park or was found there. they need to see you do it or you need to admit to it being found there. they can say whatever they want in the news tell park visitors what ever they like but if they cant prove you took it from park property they have no case and it is not illegal to posses treasure, a famous one or not. if they confiscate it they cant hold it if they cant prove you committed a crime, infact the abandoned property laws trove laws none of that apply's unless or until they prove that it was left in the park or you admit to it. there is no law stating that it's illegal to transport gold and or treasure through Yellowstone and Forrest has not said that it's hidden there. maybe it was found in Gardner, or Cooke City or West Yellowstone. If there is no proof of any law broken it's not legal for them to take it from you and they will have no grounds to do so that will hold up in a court of law period. gold isn't a controlled substance like coke it's not illegal to posses, Its not like cash where you can assign an immediate cash value to it..??? so why would they take it, because the park superintendent stated that if the treasure were found in Yellowstone that it would belong to the park? the words "hey ranger guys check out this treasure that i found in Yellowstone" would never come out of my mouth if i found it... catch me pulling it out of the dirt before i put it in my back pack and witness it then they totally have a case.. Because of a thing called Law.

                        There was a hit man for the cartels who was arrested in 2013, he committed several murders here in California 36 in total across the United States. the cops new it was him but had they arrested him with no certain evidence to convict him they would just have to let him go, they have 48 hrs to charge you with a crime or they HAVE to let you go so they had nothing conclusive and did nothing, he continued to go go free until he was busted in Alabama for murder and then confessed to the other crime's (Jose Manuel Martinez ).. were not talking murder were talking treasure and they still have to follow law and have a case.. no proof of any law broken then no case regardless of what the truth is. Like Fenn said what if there isn't an issue... If i find it I'm not telling a Ranger I found it in the park, and just like with any other cop from any agency I'll sit there with them for 48 hrs keep my mouth shut until they have to release me and my property and or find one of any number of attorneys that would be chomping at the bit to take on what would most likely become a high profile case, Pro Bono with damages, the feds know that and there not going to waste there or your time if they have no case.. possession of treasure is not a crime.
                        You might want to look at " 1st amendment audit " on youtube. Rights are violated on a daily basis by police including 4th amendment. I'm not saying you are wrong other than they would take the chest if you were in National Park and lied to them. Once in court you would either have to continue lying (not recommended) or tell the truth and the park police (rangers) would still hold the treasure till situation was totally litigated. As some parks have stated they believe if treasure was hidden on park property it is considered owned by park. (Pandoras Box)



                        This is your best recourse if you don't lie and they still will not give back your property.

                        https://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclope...he-police.html

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                        • #87
                          I think the key here would be to not say anything regarding the location, not telling is not lying its just not saying, So I would just not say, if i don't say then I don't incriminate myself. If no one see me grab it then no crime is committed and If no one witnesses my taking possession then no one can get me in trouble but me and my own big mouth. no law broken no proof of a law broken then no cause for seizure... I can legally own a 10X10X6 box of gold and carry it on my person any where I chose I would think... crooked cops and or a corrupt system don't represent true law because if they did they couldn't truly be corrupt you cant have both the letter of the law and corruption. I don't think that any of the arguments regarding lost vs abandoned vs trove etc apply to anything in this chase until your A: caught in the act of physically removing it from the ground and or picking it up from the ground or B: incriminating yourself verbally by stating you found it in the park and are in fact going to leave the park with it without informing the park superintendent and surrendering it too him after making said statement. other wise there is no way to prove that it isn't your personal property.. If you don't say anything is it a prosecutable and enforceable offence. The DA's office drops charges all the time because they don't have the supporting evidence to make a case that can be tried.

                          that's the nut of my argument.. does enforcement have merit without evidence and if a tree falling in the woods make a sound if no one is there to hear it? so we could argue the fact that yes it does if it creates sound waves but sound is not sound waves, sound is the creation of the interpretation of sound waves relayed to the brain when said sound waves hit the ear.. no witness no admission of guilt no law stating that I cant be in possession of a 10x10x6 inch box of really neat looking stuff that doesn't in fact have anymore value than the clothes on my back until a value is assigned by an appraiser (other than a few hundred dollar in coins taken at there face value) my point is that a law enforcement officer doesn't have the training to look at the contents and assign a value to it.... I'll be back I cant even talk about this anymore until I have some sleep..

                          don't lie just don't tell them and if asked just don't tell them some more.. and keep not telling them..

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                          • #88
                            Originally posted by 1keyword View Post
                            I think the key here would be to not say anything regarding the location, not telling is not lying its just not saying, So I would just not say, if i don't say then I don't incriminate myself. If no one see me grab it then no crime is committed and If no one witnesses my taking possession then no one can get me in trouble but me and my own big mouth. no law broken no proof of a law broken then no cause for seizure... I can legally own a 10X10X6 box of gold and carry it on my person any where I chose I would think... crooked cops and or a corrupt system don't represent true law because if they did they couldn't truly be corrupt you cant have both the letter of the law and corruption. I don't think that any of the arguments regarding lost vs abandoned vs trove etc apply to anything in this chase until your A: caught in the act of physically removing it from the ground and or picking it up from the ground or B: incriminating yourself verbally by stating you found it in the park and are in fact going to leave the park with it without informing the park superintendent and surrendering it too him after making said statement. other wise there is no way to prove that it isn't your personal property.. If you don't say anything is it a prosecutable and enforceable offence. The DA's office drops charges all the time because they don't have the supporting evidence to make a case that can be tried.

                            that's the nut of my argument.. does enforcement have merit without evidence and if a tree falling in the woods make a sound if no one is there to hear it? so we could argue the fact that yes it does if it creates sound waves but sound is not sound waves, sound is the creation of the interpretation of sound waves relayed to the brain when said sound waves hit the ear.. no witness no admission of guilt no law stating that I cant be in possession of a 10x10x6 inch box of really neat looking stuff that doesn't in fact have anymore value than the clothes on my back until a value is assigned by an appraiser (other than a few hundred dollar in coins taken at there face value) my point is that a law enforcement officer doesn't have the training to look at the contents and assign a value to it.... I'll be back I cant even talk about this anymore until I have some sleep..

                            don't lie just don't tell them and if asked just don't tell them some more.. and keep not telling them..
                            I'm not saying you are wrong in most of what you are stating. You do have certain rights that are 4th amendment rights and 5th amendment rights. Which are very difficult to exercise in certain situations. The situation (scenario) is being in a National Park with a treasure that some National Parks have stated they believe the treasure is owned by them if found on their property. I'm not saying they are correct. I'm just trying to show you the types of things police have done and will do to get what they want regardless of a citizens rights. Forrest did state what he was told was the rules if treasure was found in National Park and that was the treasure should be brought to superintendent. So why not do that ?

                            https://www.nps.gov/aboutus/lawsandpolicies.htm
                            Last edited by TreasureCodex; 07-04-2019, 11:02 AM.

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                            • #89
                              I think he had to say that because it wouldn't be write to tell people to break the law and not take it to the superintendent.. TTOTC where he has a run in with his teacher and has to face double jeopardy with his dad says more than anything to me.. I have a thread going on reddit that has some good point's in it from some people, I think seattle_battles may be an attorney and has made some good points that thread is here

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                              • #90
                                Originally posted by 1keyword View Post
                                I think he had to say that because it wouldn't be write to tell people to break the law and not take it to the superintendent.. TTOTC where he has a run in with his teacher and has to face double jeopardy with his dad says more than anything to me.. I have a thread going on reddit that has some good point's in it from some people, I think seattle_battles may be an attorney and has made some good points that thread is here
                                Yes, Double jeopardy is quite a Pandora's Box.

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