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  • #61
    Originally posted by TreasureCodex View Post

    And they did not follow abandoned property laws ?
    Very probable jail time for such a valuable piece of property.

    https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/abandoned_property

    " If an employee finds an item in the course of his employment, it belongs to the employer. "
    exactly, so lets say that it did happen and that that is the case... if they did find it then maybe that's why it was never announced alternatively what if they did announce it to the park superintendent and worked out a deal between the two of them as both are now gone.. one stepped down from her position the other retired.

    Also all the hubub about ownership? It would be Illegal to be caught in the act of digging on park property and removing said treasure but once its in possession even on park property, with out being caught in the act of removing it then the holder becomes the owner. there is no law on the books that states that i cannot hike with 5 million in gold on my person in a National park just like there's no law that states that I cannot open carry a firearm or be in possession of a compass or a backpack. in fact i could dance around in front of any ranger i wanted to in the park singing that i have 5 million in gold pull it out and show it to them as long as I'm not caught retrieving it in or digging it up in the park or state that i found it in the park, I could take it out and show it to them and as far as i know regardless of any questioning or inquiries into where i found said treasure? I think I can pretty much tell them whatever i like. also I don't believe there is a law regarding transportation any more so than carrying fishing poles and camping gear. maybe this is what Forrest meant when he said what if there wasn't an issue. Is it advisable to jump up and down and dance in front of a ranger stating that you have 5million in gold? probably not but definitely no laws broken and as far as where it came from? maybe some one left it on top of my car at a gas station and I'm transporting it through the park on my way south through Cooke city and onto Santa Fe to visit Forrest, all plausible regardless of how likely. No laws broken once it's in my possession right? the only thing that counts in court is law, prove I broke one or let me and my property go.

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    • #62
      Originally posted by ROLL TIDE View Post

      Bub, I wasn't even talking about you. I was calling BS on the drive-by who rolled through here claiming the treasure has already been found because it wasn't there when he got there.

      SOSDD
      same ol' $#!+ diff'rent day . . .
      Oh i get that, I just wanted to squeeze in the opportunity to post my little Illustration of the poem.. I actually figured out you were talking to the other party when you followed up you initial comment by quoting the other person and making it clear...

      Dude, the blaze is in the poem (opinion). OF OF FO FO FO for a pair and three of a kind for a full house. throw in the FO in effort for a wild card..
      he says marry the poem to the map, do that and MAYBE you have a path to the treasure aka the blaze.

      Click image for larger version  Name:	mapforweb-3.jpg Views:	1 Size:	614.0 KB ID:	106952
      Last edited by 1keyword; 07-02-2019, 04:51 PM.

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      • #63
        Originally posted by 1keyword View Post

        exactly, so lets say that it did happen and that that is the case... if they did find it then maybe that's why it was never announced alternatively what if they did announce it to the park superintendent and worked out a deal between the two of them as both are now gone.. one stepped down from her position the other retired.

        Also all the hubub about ownership? It would be Illegal to be caught in the act of digging on park property and removing said treasure but once its in possession even on park property, with out being caught in the act of removing it then the holder becomes the owner. there is no law on the books that states that i cannot hike with 5 million in gold on my person in a National park just like there's no law that states that I cannot open carry a firearm or be in possession of a compass or a backpack. in fact i could dance around in front of any ranger i wanted to in the park singing that i have 5 million in gold pull it out and show it to them as long as I'm not caught retrieving it in or digging it up in the park or state that i found it in the park, I could take it out and show it to them and as far as i know regardless of any questioning or inquiries into where i found said treasure? I think I can pretty much tell them whatever i like. also I don't believe there is a law regarding transportation any more so than carrying fishing poles and camping gear. maybe this is what Forrest meant when he said what if there wasn't an issue. Is it advisable to jump up and down and dance in front of a ranger stating that you have 5million in gold? probably not but definitely no laws broken and as far as where it came from? maybe some one left it on top of my car at a gas station and I'm transporting it through the park on my way south through Cooke city and onto Santa Fe to visit Forrest, all plausible regardless of how likely. No laws broken once it's in my possession right? the only thing that counts in court is law, prove I broke one or let me and my property go.
        Your assuming no laws broken and that may not be the case if the finder does not notify Forrest.
        Let's look at Wyoming for example as there is many many people searching there. Even though your preface is that the 2 park employees conspired to steal the chest as they were not the legal owners of it as being employees. The National Park would be the new owner of the chest.

        https://www.keaneunclaimedproperty.c...y-laws/Wyoming " Wyoming Due Diligence Requirements "


        " Wyoming requires holders to send due diligence notifications for any property with a value of $50 or more within 120 days of the filing due date. "

        " This notice should inform the owner of the nature of the property and how to recover it, and also inform the owner that the property will be turned over to the state unless the owner claims it from the holder before the escheat report is filed. "
        " Wyoming Dormancy Periods "


        " Dormancy periods in Wyoming vary by property type. Generally, most property types have a 5 year dormancy period. Accounts are considered dormant if the owner of a property has not indicated any interest in the property or if no contact has been made for the allotted dormancy period for that property. Dormancy periods in Wyoming for common property types include: "
        • " Wages, Payroll or Salary: 1 year "
        • " Safety Deposit Box Contents: 5 years "

        Now under this Wyoming law could the treasure be considered stored in a "safety deposit box " ?
        Easily it could be. So even if the park employees tried to steal it and not hand it over to park management the park could not keep ownership of it themselves. They would have to contact Forrest also or be liable for theft.

        As the park being a business in Wyoming it would have to turn over the treasure to the State. As it is clearly a benefit that was set aside for the finder thru a trust. It is easy to see the whole treasure hunt as a trust and that yes it is even in writing.
        Wyoming Title 34 chapter 24 deals with what is to be done with the property.

        Sure people could lie if they chose to do that. So why lie if you are not doing anything wrong ? Forrest said his understanding if treasure is found in National Park that it is required to be turned over to Park Ranger. Why interfere with his method of knowing the treasure has been found and taken possession of ? That's not the type of person Forrest hid the treasure for and it would be in Judge Forrest's hands to decide if the person could keep the property. Because the finder would be required by law to tell Forrest that they had the treasure in their possession.
        He could always change his mind and not allow the finder to keep the treasure if they had it in their hands without following the appropriate laws. Follow the laws and their is no legal issue. If you don't know the rules then stay home and play canasta as he has said in the past.




        Last edited by TreasureCodex; 07-02-2019, 05:38 PM.

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        • #64
          Originally posted by TreasureCodex View Post

          Your assuming no laws broken and that may not be the case if the finder does not notify Forrest.
          Let's look at Wyoming for example as there is many many people searching there. Even though your preface is that the 2 park employees conspired to steal the chest as they were not the legal owners of it as being employees. The National Park would be the new owner of the chest.

          https://www.keaneunclaimedproperty.c...y-laws/Wyoming " Wyoming Due Diligence Requirements "


          " Wyoming requires holders to send due diligence notifications for any property with a value of $50 or more within 120 days of the filing due date. "

          " This notice should inform the owner of the nature of the property and how to recover it, and also inform the owner that the property will be turned over to the state unless the owner claims it from the holder before the escheat report is filed. "
          " Wyoming Dormancy Periods "


          " Dormancy periods in Wyoming vary by property type. Generally, most property types have a 5 year dormancy period. Accounts are considered dormant if the owner of a property has not indicated any interest in the property or if no contact has been made for the allotted dormancy period for that property. Dormancy periods in Wyoming for common property types include: "
          • " Wages, Payroll or Salary: 1 year "
          • " Safety Deposit Box Contents: 5 years "

          Now under this Wyoming law could the treasure be considered stored in a "safety deposit box " ?
          Easily it could be. So even if the park employees tried to steal it and not hand it over to park management the park could not keep ownership of it themselves. They would have to contact Forrest also or be liable for theft.



          but wouldn't that only count if they stated that it had been found in the park? once it is in possesion who's to say where it came from. also who is to say that if it were indeed high ranking employees of the park say the director of a something like I don't know for hypothetical reason's lets say Yellowrock Forever and maybe the superintendent of Jellystone lets say two similar individuals had there hands on said trove and decided to break the law and keep mum about there involvement then retire and or resign... tottaly hypothetical in nature of course. could happen and TADA we would NEVER NEVER KNOW... law broken or not. I can see several similar situations where this could apply with any number of other type's of individuals and or park employee's

          also.. being in possession of or transporting said treasure breaks no laws correct? I mean no laws are broken driving around and or walking around with a box full of gold correct? or was that the point of the Wyoming Dormancy Periods law?

          find gold put gold in car or back pack, no one saw me retrieve gold I have gold in my possession and may or may not have had gold in my possession when i started my hike or drove out from California.. there is no law stating that i cant hike with 3 million, 5 million vs a nickle in my possession. in fact the other party can ask where i got it but i dont have to reply any more than i have to tell them where i bought my shoes or what i had for breakfast.. it's non of there buisness.

          just saying because, I have been in court and have been asked questions that had i answered I could have incriminated myself and had i lied in response i would have committed a crime, but my stating that i did not want to answer the question with out consulting an attorney or just out right pleading the 5th I'm not required by law to incriminate myself so why would i or anyone else do so when asked by a park / law enforcement employee, I'm not required to and if I'm not breaking any laws by being in possession of gold?

          maybe when Fenn said what if its not an issue, that was what he meant.. all he ask is that you tell him you have retrieved it and maybe give him back his bracelet or sell it to him even.
          Last edited by 1keyword; 07-02-2019, 05:48 PM.

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          • #65
            Originally posted by 1keyword View Post

            but wouldn't that only count if they stated that it had been found in the park? once it is in possesion who's to say where it came from. also who is to say that if it were indeed high ranking employees of the park say the director of a something like I don't know for hypothetical reason's lets say Yellowrock Forever and maybe the superintendent of Jellystone lets say two similar individuals had there hands on said trove and decided to break the law and keep mum about there involvement then retire and or resign... tottaly hypothetical in nature of course. could happen and TADA we would NEVER NEVER KNOW... law broken or not. I can see several similar situations where this could apply with any number of other type's of individuals and or park employee's

            also.. being in possession of or transporting said treasure breaks no laws correct? I mean no laws are broken driving around and or walking around with a box full of gold correct? or was that the point of the Wyoming Dormancy Periods law?

            find gold put gold in car or back pack, no one saw me retrieve gold I have gold in my possession and may or may not have had gold in my possession when i started my hike or drove out from California.. there is no law stating that i cant hike with 3 million, 5 million vs a nickle in my possession. in fact the other party can ask where i got it but i dont have to reply any more than i have to tell them where i bought my shoes or what i had for breakfast.. it's non of there buisness.
            I updated the original post.
            The dormancy law is about how long a business has to contact (give the property back to) the real owner. (Excluding initial attempt at contact)
            The park would be the business in question.
            The scenario you set forth is about park employees committing crimes which to top it off was done on federal property which increases the criminal penalties.
            As far as your questions about being in possession of or transporting of the treasure. Those would not be considered as wrong doing unless you did not contact Forrest and tell him you found the treasure. If you didn't then it could be considered possession and transporting stolen property. Possibly across state lines. The moral of the story is to be moral and just tell Forrest it was found and taken possession of if you find it. And if you are one of the criminal park employees. It could be one of the dumbest moves ever made to not follow the rules.

            Comment


            • #66
              Originally posted by TreasureCodex View Post

              I updated the original post.
              The dormancy law is about how long a business has to contact (give the property back to) the real owner. (Excluding initial attempt at contact)
              The park would be the business in question.
              The scenario you set forth is about park employees committing crimes which to top it off was done on federal property which increases the criminal penalties.
              As far as your questions about being in possession of or transporting of the treasure. Those would not be considered as wrong doing unless you did not contact Forrest and tell him you found the treasure. If you didn't then it could be considered possession and transporting stolen property. Possibly across state lines. The moral of the story is to be moral and just tell Forrest it was found and taken possession of if you find it. And if you are one of the criminal park employees. It could be one of the dumbest moves ever made to not follow the rules.
              I haven't found it, and would definitely drive to New Mexico to see Forrest and give him his bracelet if i did. and no I do not work for the parks service... nor am i a government employee. Just an interesting scenario ha, would it be the first time that a government agency or it's employee's exhibited corruption and disregarded laws?
              Last edited by 1keyword; 07-02-2019, 06:02 PM.

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              • #67
                back on topic, I think the blaze is in the poem per my previous post and as a bonus i would like to share my OPINION of the line "but tarry scant with marvel gaze" my location being Lamar Buffalo Ranch for a point of reference (home of ranger Garry Brown ) so if that were the location it's my opinion that that line in the poem is a riddle in reference to Bison Peak, there's a Bison peak in the Tarryall Mountains in Colorado at 12000+ ft and a Bison Peak above Lamar Buffalo Ranch that is 8000+ ft being the scanter of the two mountains the word tying the two together being the word tarry changing the line to but Bison Peak with marvel gaze if one were at the location of the cross with the poem married to the map at that location it would be saying to look north at and be in the line of sight of Bison peak.. like I said it's an opinion.

                maybe even "If you've been wise and found the blaze look quickly down your quest to cease" another opinion is that this could mean that once you get to that point in the poem you need to look down in the poem to the line containing "hint of" for your hint of the path to the location of the box?

                Opinion, blaze is in the poem as a trail blaze to get to the spot and face north looking at or in the direction of Bison Peak to find a marker on the ground or in the location? possibly..
                Last edited by 1keyword; 07-02-2019, 06:18 PM.

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                • #68
                  Originally posted by 1keyword View Post
                  back on topic, I think the blaze is in the poem per my previous post and as a bonus i would like to share my OPINION of the line "but tarry scant with marvel gaze" my location being Lamar Buffalo Ranch for a point of reference (home of ranger Garry Brown ) so if that were the location it's my opinion that that line in the poem is a riddle in reference to Bison Peak, there's a Bison peak in the Tarryall Mountains in Colorado at 12000+ ft and a Bison Peak above Lamar Buffalo Ranch that is 8000+ ft being the scanter of the two mountains the word tying the two together being the word tarry changing the line to but Bison Peak with marvel gaze if one were at the location of the cross with the poem married to the map at that location it would be saying to look north at and be in the line of sight of Bison peak.. like I said it's an opinion.

                  maybe even "If you've been wise and found the blaze look quickly down your quest to cease" another opinion is that this could mean that once you get to that point in the poem you need to look down in the poem to the line containing "hint of" for your hint of the path to the location of the box?

                  Opinion, blaze is in the poem as a trail blaze to get to the spot and face north looking at or in the direction of Bison Peak to find a marker on the ground or in the location? possibly..
                  Sounds as good as anybody's rationale. I think there are only 2 key important places in the poem. Where Warm Waters Halt and Home Of Brown. Everything else is basic geographical / geological features.

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                  • #69
                    Originally posted by 1keyword View Post

                    I haven't found it, and would definitely drive to New Mexico to see Forrest and give him his bracelet if i did. and no I do not work for the parks service... nor am i a government employee. Just an interesting scenario ha, would it be the first time that a government agency or it's employee's exhibited corruption and disregarded laws?
                    I hear ya ! I would actually get a kick out of seeing crooked fed workers do the perp walk. But if you find you might want to be cautious driving and not get pulled over by police especially sheriff office. They have a habit of confiscating far more property than the law gave them instruction to do. They do so under forfeiture laws designed to interfere with criminal activity , it's profits and how it is funded.

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                    • #70
                      I have had many WWWH's in my quest.. my final conclusion was that it referenced an area with a multitude of thermal features hence waters plural. I just found a place called Warm Creek that dumps into Soda Butte Creek the canyon there heads south to the Lamar River Valley before that it was Madison then West Thumb then Norris and before that Tower Junction at the intersection of highway 89 and 212 referencing water temps. I've tried comparing all of them to see if one was more important than the other, I think the clues are supposed to lead you to HOB and once you have that than the rest of the poem applys to that location. Forrest has stated that if you know where HOB is then you could walk right to the treasure.. so at this point I wonder if it matters. If i have HOB and WWWH was intended to denote what area in the Rocky mountains to search in then it's completed it's task by narrowing down the possible locations for home HOB?

                      also a good argument would be that if it didn't draw you to a specific area or region then it would leave the entire US rocky's open and it cant be that, it has to be an much smaller area, the box is only 10X10 for chris't sake I used to think you needed knowledge of something at the location of WWWH but maybe it just places you in the general vicinity and it's that simple..
                      Last edited by 1keyword; 07-02-2019, 06:38 PM.

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                      • #71
                        Originally posted by TreasureCodex View Post

                        I hear ya ! I would actually get a kick out of seeing crooked fed workers do the perp walk. But if you find you might want to be cautious driving and not get pulled over by police especially sheriff office. They have a habit of confiscating far more property than the law gave them instruction to do. They do so under forfeiture laws designed to interfere with criminal activity , it's profits and how it is funded.
                        point taken... I would take lots of photo's of the treasure in my possession sent to friends via email sent to Forrest and posted on line (with out my face or location)

                        "They do so under forfeiture laws designed to interfere with criminal activity" I think that that's a risk anyone would be subject to given the nature of said treasure.

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                        • #72
                          If the poem contains all the information needed to locate the treasure chest, and the blaze is a clue, then I would suspect it can be (predetermined).

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                          • #73
                            Originally posted by M.c.B. View Post
                            I think this can help us find the last clue.

                            Q - Can the blaze be pre-determined by the poem or can it only be determined at the search area?- becky

                            A - "Becky, you are a rascal to ask that question and I have been sitting here for about fifteen minutes trying to decide what to say. Well, it has been thirty minutes now and I think I’ll pass on the question. Sorry.f"
                            neither

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                            • #74
                              Originally posted by 1keyword View Post

                              point taken... I would take lots of photo's of the treasure in my possession sent to friends via email sent to Forrest and posted on line (with out my face or location)

                              "They do so under forfeiture laws designed to interfere with criminal activity" I think that that's a risk anyone would be subject to given the nature of said treasure.
                              ask them, they'll tell you, they WILL take the treasure

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                              • #75
                                Originally posted by 1keyword View Post
                                I have had many WWWH's in my quest.. my final conclusion was that it referenced an area with a multitude of thermal features hence waters plural. I just found a place called Warm Creek that dumps into Soda Butte Creek the canyon there heads south to the Lamar River Valley before that it was Madison then West Thumb then Norris and before that Tower Junction at the intersection of highway 89 and 212 referencing water temps. I've tried comparing all of them to see if one was more important than the other, I think the clues are supposed to lead you to HOB and once you have that than the rest of the poem applys to that location. Forrest has stated that if you know where HOB is then you could walk right to the treasure.. so at this point I wonder if it matters. If i have HOB and WWWH was intended to denote what area in the Rocky mountains to search in then it's completed it's task by narrowing down the possible locations for home HOB?

                                also a good argument would be that if it didn't draw you to a specific area or region then it would leave the entire US rocky's open and it cant be that, it has to be an much smaller area, the box is only 10X10 for chris't sake I used to think you needed knowledge of something at the location of WWWH but maybe it just places you in the general vicinity and it's that simple..
                                If you're drawn to that area, I think Icebox Canyon is more "Fenn-y" as a WWWH. It still feeds you to the same area. I just don't care for the Lamar Ranger Station as a home of Brown (for instance) since I'm a firm "no structures" guy.

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