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The Gut Feeling Statement, Revisited

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  • #31
    Originally posted by 5-leaf Blaze View Post
    ... there was a flaw in my end-solve...
    Still better than the fly that has been stuck in my craw since I learned about the Chase.

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    • #32
      Originally posted by LurkerMike View Post

      My trio will be Me, Horace and Daniel.

      Horace and Daniel have long been close personal friends with me and they can be your friends too. Google Horace Smith and Daniel B. Wesson and see what kind of relationship with them might work for you. I'm thinking the 3.5" 460XVR running Double Tap brand 200 grain hard cast .454 Casull would keep me company in almost any wood.

      I believe in bear spray, but I warn you that I found myself in a situation last year that made bear spray completely ineffective because of the dense jungle like brush field I was in when a bear passed by me some 30' distance. You can't spray bear spray through dense foliage, that isn't going to work. I started to report that bear to the authorities for coming closer than the 100 yards separation that is supposed to be required in those parts of the Rockies. But he didn't bother me so I didn't want to get him in any trouble. Besides, no one likes a snitch.

      But it was a situation where I might have needed a gun I didn't have, and next time I would rather have a gun I don't need.
      That is a serious weapon; I bet it's a thrill to shoot. I carry an old leatherman with me into the wood; and I know how to use it.
      Favorite ff quote: ".... When these guys are making a mistake I don’t want to interrupt them." -ff
      Search Theme Song: Crazy Train https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RMR5zf1J1Hs

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      • #33
        Originally posted by OH!! View Post

        A Forrest Fenn quote: They get progressively easier after you discover where the first clue is.
        When Forrest makes a comment like this, it holds major clout in my mind, because there isn't any different reading a person can derive from the statement. By the time you are halfway thru the clues, the clue difficulty percentage drops by at least 50%. It is always good to keep the words he uses like "progressively" in mind when he comments.
        I've thought about that quote a lot while trying to figure out the clues to the poem; all I can say about it is it's from the point of view of the author; readers of the poem see things differently.
        Favorite ff quote: ".... When these guys are making a mistake I don’t want to interrupt them." -ff
        Search Theme Song: Crazy Train https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RMR5zf1J1Hs

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        • #34
          Originally posted by FennMaster View Post

          I've thought about that quote a lot while trying to figure out the clues to the poem; all I can say about it is it's from the point of view of the author; readers of the poem see things differently.
          I see that happening but the quote: "They get progressively easier after you discover where the first clue is" has only one meaning. You discover the first clue and the rest get easier as you progress onto the next. progressively easier = more and more easier. If they are getting more difficult for a person then they need to re-think their solve.
          "SSShhhh!. Be vewy vewy quiet, I'm hunting wabbits with my imagination", "huh-uh-uh-uh-uh-uh-uh-uh".

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          • #35
            Originally posted by OH!! View Post

            I see that happening but the quote: "They get progressively easier after you discover where the first clue is" has only one meaning. You discover the first clue and the rest get easier as you progress onto the next. progressively easier = more and more easier. If they are getting more difficult for a person then they need to re-think their solve.
            I understand what you're saying OH but it may only be easier from Forrest's point of view; a searcher may struggle more with some clues that Forrest thinks are easier; that's all I'm sayin'
            Favorite ff quote: ".... When these guys are making a mistake I don’t want to interrupt them." -ff
            Search Theme Song: Crazy Train https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RMR5zf1J1Hs

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            • #36
              Regarding the "gut feeling" - I have wondered if this is actually a hint in reference to a geographical feature; a creek or stream with many loops or meanders that mimic intestines/guts. A meandering stream typically occurs in a large meadow that has little elevation drop; and from GE or any topo map may look like the nearly circular loops resembling "guts". Those circular type loops eventually turn into oxbow lakes, looking very much like an omega symbol. Perhaps "gut feeling" was a confirmation of sort that someone was in the correct general area. And that person did not get the hint.

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              • #37
                Originally posted by FennMaster View Post

                That is a serious weapon; I bet it's a thrill to shoot. I carry an old leatherman with me into the wood; and I know how to use it.
                The 460 has the advantage of variable power levels of ammo, it shoots:

                .45 Long Colt "Cowboy Loads" These are weakish, around 400 ft lbs ME (Muzzle Energy) running a subsonic 860-ish fps at the muzzle. That's in the neighborhood of a 9mm or .38.
                Definitely NOT a bear round, but good for cheap plinking.

                .454 Casull, a typical load is going to produce power somewhere north of 1,700 ft lbs ME going supersonic (1080+ fps) around 1,500 fps.
                This is considerably more power than a .44 Magnum that typically maxes out around 1,000 ft lbs ME around 1,300 fps. I consider .44 Mag with hard cast loads the bare bear minimum, and even then, excellent shot placement will be required to put a large predator down. Probably more than one shot will be required. The .454 Casull is enough more powerful, with enough more velocity to give better penetration and make shot placement less critical.

                .460 S&W Magnum is a beast. MV (Muzzle Velocity) is the highest of any pistol on earth at over 2,000 fps. That is rifle speed. Loads can exceed 2,800 ft lbs of ME!
                The .460 Magnum is very close in power to the .500 S&W Magnum. The difference is .500 ammo is very expensive and you can only shoot .500 ammo with a .500 Mag.

                My thinking is the .454 Casull is a good choice for me. I have never been big bore revolver fan because I never had a need for one. I doubt I would like shooting .454 Casull, but I'm sure I could manage it as it recoils probably around 1.5x to 2x harder than a .44 Mag.

                .460 is a round I would let my friends shoot to laugh at them rather than a round I would hurt my own hand and/or arm with. It is too much. While I have over 40 years of shooting expiernce some 35 with handguns, I could probably manage to shoot .460, but not proficiently.

                Now I could just get a .454 Casull pistol and still have the ability to shoot .45 Long Colt. But getting the .460 is like buying the "S" or "GT" or "SS" high-performance engine option on a car you drive to work. You may never surpass the 150 miles per hour it was designed to go, but just knowing you could makes it a much cooler car than the base model. And resell on a .460 is probably going to hold its value better than a .454 Casull.

                And in a life or death situation, you must be able to bring what you have to bear and get good hits. In other words it would be better to hit a bear six times with .38 or 9mm, despite these rounds having no immediate stopping power on a bear, than to miss with anything larger. So my advice for predator defense is to buy and train with the largest caliber you can master proficientcy with. Going one size larger than you can handle is probably going to be less effective than a caliber you can handle.

                Now with all of that pistol talk I am considering a 12 gauge Mossberg Shockwave loaded with hard cast slugs instead. I have never had a use for this firarm that I considered a "novelty" before. But it is legally very short and relatively light weight. And the fact that it can be carried slung in the low ready. With a sling there is less chance of dropping it and it still can be used as club if needed. They can be had for less than $400 so no big loss if TSA or baggage handlers steal it from my luggage, which is less likely than they would steal a pistol since it is harder to hide and sneak a shotgun off of airport property.

                Here is a tip for anyone carrying a shotgun in the feild where an immediate shot may be required suddenly. Don't chamber a round and don't engage the safety. Simply do a "half rack" where you pull back the action to chamber a round, but DON'T push the action forward to chamber the round. Leave the action pulled back as the round will rest on the elevator all day long. If you have to shoot, slam the foerend home and pull the trigger. No fumbling with the safety and since it is not chambered until you send it home, it can't go off if you take a tumble down the canyon wall or creek as the case may be.

                I want to stress that shooting any animal is a last resort, and even then you are probably going to jail to be booked and possibly charged. If it is a bear or moose charging, remember they are comming at you at around 30 mph, bouncing, bobbing and weaving the whole way. They will be on you in less than couple of seconds. My thinking is you will get only one shot if you even get a shot. So to best make it count, you best wait until the last possible moment to fire. You are more likely to score a head shot when he is no more than 10' from killing you, and you want to leave powder burns on his fur to better establish that it was a defensive shot rather than you were some yahoo who just wanted to shoot an animal because you have mental issues. If you survive and the animal is wounded, you may risk more legal complications from shooting it a second time. But I will not let a wounded animal suffer when there is no hope that it can survive. I will dispatch it as quickly and as humanely as possible.

                My first line of defense will be bear spray, two cans. One can might not work, so I have a backup. One can might be used up while I am "in there" but another can might be needed to fend off another attack as I try to hike the heck out of there. Remember that bear spray will likely have a time delay from when it contacts the bear until the bear actually starts feeling the effects. And you are going to feel the effects too! If you have never been pepper sprayed, you are in for a rude awakinging. Don't ask me how I know that. But trust me, you can push and work through it if your life is on the line, at least for a few seconds until hopefully the bear is no longer an immediate threat. But bear spray will not work well in dense foaliage, or spraying into a stiff wind. It is also better to try to spray to establish a cloud of mist in the air between you and the bear that he will have to run through than to try to spray the bear directly with the stream.

                Ideally you would spray to form that cloud of mist early enough that you could drop the can and transition to your firearm as he is entering the cloud of mist, holding your fire until he is point blank just in case he does turn back. No bear charge starts out as a bluff charge. They are start with the potential of being a real charge but the bear decides along the way if he will turn back in bluff or if he will follow through. And just because he bluff charges you a few times, does not mean the next one won't be for keeps.

                Another concept I have been contemplating is buying one of those 50,000 candle power/lumins search light flash lights. Not so much because Forrest said to take a flashlight and a sandwich, but more so to have a chance of seeing my way out of there if for some unplanned reason nightfall catches me before I have completed my egress. But if I had such a blinding light, and a bear approached, I wonder if shining the light to blind him would dissuade or encourage him from attacking?

                Now with all of that said, my version of Murphy's Law is that the things you are most prepared for are the least likely to happen. But those things you are not prepared for are the ones that will burn you the most. Because I will be prepared, the odds are low that I will seen another bear in close proximity to me again on my next BOTG in the same search area I had my first bear encounter last year at about 30' distance. Fortunatly is was a young bear that took no interest in me and momma wasn't around. But it is a worse feeling to need a gun you don't have with you than to have a gun with you that you don't need. The one thing even having a gun really helps with is keeping your cool and not panicking. Fear will get you killed quicker than anything if you panic in a bad situation. And yes, I believe bears can see and smell your fear.

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                • #38
                  Gut feeling goes along with the architecture of the poem. It's relates with the imagination to see beyond the aberrations. One other thing i don't hear mentioned much. If you start at wwwh as clue one and end at take the chest and go in peace. There's 10 suggestive clues. One is a ploy. Home of Brown? He also said the blaze clue is in the middle. So that should make it clue 4 or 5. Yet the last paragraph comes across as reconfirmation of where to be with more clues.

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