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Forrest gave the "Prince of the Comancheros" a bad "wrap"!

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  • Forrest gave the "Prince of the Comancheros" a bad "wrap"!




    In "Prince of the Comancheros," Forrest accuses Tafoya of trading the Comanches "cattle, horses, rifles, ammo, whisky, and anything else he could steal," and claims General Mackenzie tied him to a wagon wheel and tortured him for the location where the Comanches were camped in Palo Duro Canyon. Forrest says that after this, Tafoya figured it was time for him to retire back to his ranch, "where he died in 1913." I say that's kinda a bad rap. Get it?

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    There's a lot more to the story than this. Tafoya was actually an enlisted man on many of these campaigns, and if he was working outside the law it was because the government agents he was having to get permission from to do trade were also working outside the law. Then when the law closed up its loopholes on him and confiscated 900 head of his cattle, Tafoya may have retired from the comanchero business but he remained in service to the U.S. Army. (General John Bullis, who Forrest mentions in "Apaches in the Garage," was familiar with Tafoya, too.)

    "To his superiors, Mackenzie described Tafoya as "very reliable," and "brave, intelligent and sagacious," recognizing the New Mexican's vast knowledge of the Southern Plains and recruiting him as a scout during several decisive campaigns. He thought enough of Tafoya to keep track of Tafoya's whereabouts, in 1879 asking his superiors to detach Tafoya from duty at Fort Clark and send him to Mackenzie at Fort Garland, Colorado. He stated that Tafoya had "been in my employ ... for a number of years" as a scout and added that "it is very desirable to have him here.""

    Tafoya was a corporal at Fort Sill under Mackenzie in 1879 and was discharged in 1882 -- more than seven years after the incident at Palo Duro Canyon that supposedly sent him into hiding. And the thing about this is that, after all those years as an Army scout, Tafoya was denied his pension! He died in 1913 and his widow kept trying, but it was still 16 years after Tafoya's death that she was finally awarded a pension of $30 per month!

    "Tafoya's life was the stuff of legend, however fragmentary and mundane the written record. His military service was rewarded with a small pension, awarded to his wife after twenty-seven years of applications, and when Tafoya himself had been dead for sixteen years. Tafoya, as husband and father, professional scout, soldier, and man of property, bears no resemblance to the stereotype of the comanchero. An American trying to improve his condition and adapt to changing times, he applied special knowledge and skills to frontier circumstances. Although Tafoya served in wars and military campaigns, survived in lawless regions, and undoubtedly saw much cruelty and crime, witnesses characterized him as "honest" and "reliable." His life seems most remarkable for the absence of the transgressions often associated with the term comanchero."


    I'm sure Forrest knew these things, too, because of his friendship with J. Evetts Haley, who accompanied Forrest to Palo Duro Canyon one time, and who is one of the references cited in the above paper. I'm calling "Aberration!" on this one.

  • #2
    Good point, but then I think there's necessarily a lot of aberrations in Forrest's stories in the Chase.
    As for Tafoya, his dealings with the Comanches no doubt helped in his information gathering, CIA-like, so I don't know why he got a bad "wrap" over that. I'm sure Forrest recognized this and your "wrap" find seems like a good catch.

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    • #3
      Originally posted by goldwatch
      Good point, but then I think there's necessarily a lot of aberrations in Forrest's stories in the Chase.
      As for Tafoya, his dealings with the Comanches no doubt helped in his information gathering, CIA-like, so I don't know why he got a bad "wrap" over that. I'm sure Forrest recognized this and your "wrap" find seems like a good catch.
      Yes, all these stories seem connected and I don't know quite what to make of it. Kinda makes me worry about our national security. Forrest's story about Tucker Wyche begins with a poem (quoted) by Augustus Allen Hayes:

      "When war is rife, and danger's nigh,
      'God and soldiers' 's all the cry.
      When the war is o'er, and the danger righted,
      God is forgotten, and the soldier slighted."

      Might want to look up the context of that...

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Gunrunner

        Yes, all these stories seem connected and I don't know quite what to make of it. Kinda makes me worry about our national security. Forrest's story about Tucker Wyche begins with a poem (quoted) by Augustus Allen Hayes:

        "When war is rife, and danger's nigh,
        'God and soldiers' 's all the cry.
        When the war is o'er, and the danger righted,
        God is forgotten, and the soldier slighted."

        Might want to look up the context of that...
        Well, we know how he felt after Vietnam. TTOTC page 99 he writes regarding receiving the Vietnamese Cross of Gallantry, "Never mind how important those things were to me at the time, they later added up to a big empty. Was there nothing better to show for that year away from my family and risking my life everyday? Maybe so!"

        IMO, it was similar for Tafoya in that after serving...he set to do his thing in trading....only to be bitterly punished. (Like risking his life everyday only to have his service forgotten by those who then beat him). Well, IMO....the sentiment is identical...​with Forrest's in a way. Then throw in the sentiment of that poem from above....and there you have it.

        IMO....resentment is a part of life. Oh...resentment towards parents, friends, school teachers, the city, the U.S. Government/whatever. IMO....I resent taxes, insurance, work, etc....to an extent. IMO....that poem catches very well a sentiment that I think we can all identify with. IMO...it's not the only sentiment at play in the mind. Sure....God and Country and Family. Tafoya....went back to his family farm/ranch, Forrest said, "Maybe so!" IMO....that was the end of that chapter for the both of them...and the beginning of the next too. In Forrest's unfolding story he would also later have to tolerate the ass-hats and a search warrant on his house. Like being tied to a wagon wheel and beaten.....in a way.....perhaps.....sentiment....maybe Forrest and Tafoya were simpatico in the "brotherhood" of warriors......soldiers......comancheros/brothers in arms. (Brothers in arms are men who serve together in a conflict, especially war. By extension, brothers in arms are also men who share a very close, strong relationship). Perhaps Forrest thought that his own experience was mirrored by Tafoya's. Maybe he thought/felt that there was a kinship of sorts with these elements/people....

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        • #5
          Good one, a bad wrap I mean. He must of been a 'hard shtick' to follow being a land owner and all. Somewhere along the line he must have been kissed by a long legged princess, whatever that means.

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          • #6
            Originally posted by Star Shadow
            Good one, a bad wrap I mean. He must of been a 'hard shtick' to follow being a land owner and all. Somewhere along the line he must have been kissed by a long legged princess, whatever that means.
            Well, Forrest is stretching him a bit when he says he was 7 feet tall. His enlistment papers describe him as about 5'10".

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Gunrunner

              Well, Forrest is stretching him a bit when he says he was 7 feet tall. His enlistment papers describe him as about 5'10".
              7 feet would have made him a great pool player; 5'10" only average:/

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              • #8
                Reading the history of Tafoya's early life and the complexities between the Mexicans and Indians and the expanding United States reminded me of this Wilson Hurley painting that I really like. Those folks had no idea what was coming.

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                A July Morning in Santa Fe, 1776
                Wilson Hurley spent much of his life in New Mexico, a place that helped to shape his refined view of landscape. Although he has often been compared to great landscape painters of the Hudson River School his paintings are definitively part of more modern depiction of landscape.



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                • #9
                  Originally posted by Gunrunner

                  Well, Forrest is stretching him a bit when he says he was 7 feet tall. His enlistment papers describe him as about 5'10".
                  Good catch. Even being 6 feet tall back then was somewhat rare. Maybe the treasure is buried, or "sepulchered" 7 feet deep under the blaze. No wonder I haven't found it yet.

                  Going to be some hard digging.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Gunrunner Hi
                    Its not so much the story or what it’s about,it’s about Forrest’s treasures bold, here is a couple more hints and this is the keys to finding Forrest’s special place look at the second and third pictures figure it out

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by [email protected]
                      Gunrunner Hi
                      Its not so much the story or what it’s about,it’s about Forrest’s treasures bold, here is a couple more hints and this is the keys to finding Forrest’s special place look at the second and third pictures figure it out
                      Well, I have Tafoya linked to Palo Duro Canyon, where he is also connected to Trooper Gregg at Blanco Canyon and General Bullis at Camp Bullis. Believe it or not, I also suspect a connection between the "small Wyche ranch in Northern Arizona" and the photos of "I Wish I Hadn't" you posted for me a few days back. I know that Palo Duro Canyon is not far from the "small Wyche homestead" just east of Hereford, Texas, though I have not yet pinpointed exactly where it was.

                      By the way, have you ever looked up info on the guy Forrest was hunting with in that story -- who "Andy Anderson" was?

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Gunrunner
                        you’re missing my points, it’s all about the pictures in the stories and the treasures bold ,let the pictures and google earth lead you to that special place. Find this picture in tftw.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by [email protected]
                          Gunrunner
                          you’re missing my points, it’s all about the pictures in the stories and the treasures bold ,let the pictures and google earth lead you to that special place. Find this picture in tftw.
                          I think you should realize by now that no one is going to try to guess someone else's solve for them. It's just futile. You see what kinds of ideas people have. Who knows what they may be guessing about some thing Fenn said!? It's just a waste of time -- like the 30 minutes I spent looking at your area on GE. You'll have to come up with something a lot better than that to make me believe the chest was in that part of Yellowstone (or even in Wyoming for that matter). If you want people to know about your solve you're going to have to lay it out for us step by step and explain it over and over until we understand it and then convince us that it might be true. I don't put much weight on pareidolia myself because I know how easy it is for me to see alligator lizards in the air, plainly, even when no one else does.

                          But if you really want to pay attention to the pictures in the stories, I would say the background maps in OUAW say that the western part of Yellowstone is "out of the picture." Not sure where your solve is but OUAW misses that area completely.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Gunrunner
                            why are you here on this site? You are looking for answers just like everyone else here! And you all dig into Forrest stories the same way and how is that working out for you all. I’ll give you another hint,what lasts a thousand years without much change (mountains) or geography, can you see Tofoyas back in the mountains in the right picture in the above post. The picture in the middle is on page 15 in tftw buffalo smoke.Forrest said get your pirate on and you know pirates used land markings as hints and Forrest seen all his hints from above hence google earth and his planes.one more thing I never said the chest was in the park and it wasn’t and it it is not anywhere near the places I have shown here this is the start of all Forrest hints as is the wwwh. It took me 2 half years to figure it out and you won’t believe where the end is and why so many people at the 500ft mark and a few at the 200ft mark. Clint

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by [email protected]
                              Gunrunner
                              why are you here on this site? You are looking for answers just like everyone else here! And you all dig into Forrest stories the same way and how is that working out for you all. I’ll give you another hint,what lasts a thousand years without much change (mountains) or geography, can you see Tofoyas back in the mountains in the right picture in the above post. The picture in the middle is on page 15 in tftw buffalo smoke.Forrest said get your pirate on and you know pirates used land markings as hints and Forrest seen all his hints from above hence google earth and his planes.one more thing I never said the chest was in the park and it wasn’t and it it is not anywhere near the places I have shown here this is the start of all Forrest hints as is the wwwh. It took me 2 half years to figure it out and you won’t believe where the end is and why so many people at the 500ft mark and a few at the 200ft mark. Clint
                              You must not be reading my posts.

                              If I won't believe where the end is, how the heck are "hints'" supposed to help me? Whatever reasons I may have for being on this site don't involve playing guessing games with the other folks here. If you have something to say, spell it out.

                              Comment

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