The stanzas after you "take tbe chest".

[Livinlifebig]

Good. Rose's comment didn't belong on this forum, and neither did any of the following replies, mine or yours.
But I'm not going to just let haters of capitalism and Constitutional rights of ownership, two big reasons that America has become the greatest country in the world, post freely without a response.
I'm glad it's done with.

She is not a hater of capitalism, and neither am I. You have read this all wrong.

[goldwatch]

She is not a hater of capitalism, and neither am I. You have read this all wrong.

Then don't bring capitalism and ownership into the equation.

[Rose Livingstone]

Rose, I'm sorry but this kind of thinking bothers me a great deal. Let me explain.
First, the very reason for "money" is as a convenient "store of wealth." There's a need for this "store of wealth" for the even more convenient capability to do business using something of recognized value, better still if that something actually had real life lasting value behind it (as opposed to something like tulip bulbs).

Would it be fair for a person who produces more than others, through their own hard work and capabilities, to not be compensated for it? Of course not. So then, what should they do with excess money? Did they not earn it? (Let's assume that they did, and not a criminal.)

Beyond that, there's the question of how that money is saved, does it just sit there and do nothing? No, it doesn't in most cases. Sure, there's that "under the mattress" thing, but usually excess money is invested in some fashion. Whether that's invested in stocks and bonds and that sort of thing, or simply put in the bank, that money goes to work to create more growth in the economy than without it.
That growth equals jobs and earnings for others.

This is why that sort of thinking bothers me, it's just not accurate.
I hope you can see this. Thanks for listening.

I was talking about how sometimes ‘touch’ and ‘cover’ are more valuable than ‘take’, the PIE etymological roots of which I wouldn’t have looked up without the phrase “take the chest.”
But yes, I read Ayn Rand as a teenager and found Objectivism as logically sound and compassionless as I do now, decades later. I have nothing against the concept of common currency, ownership of property, free competitive markets, and global trade. I do have a problem when the decrepit hand of evil slithers into a system, corrupts it from the inside out, and then pukes that acidic, vile duodenum upon humanity as a whole with the added bonus of an environment so far gone and past the point of being saved that all of your progeny are already dead- whether you want to admit it or not. That’s not a “theory”. That’s fact. Capitalism has stages. We are now in the late and final stage where corruption has strangled the system and all we have left is the fall of Rome gargling out those final death throe rattles. You say to blame the politicians and not the ultra wealthy greedy fucks. Ok. Who bought and paid for the politicians, the judges, the entire media empire? Who actually controls the information? the nukes? The military is just a very obedient dog. Our education system has been dismantled because we don’t want critical thinkers who may stand up for themselves and demand fair, honest wages that keep up with inflation, access to clean drinking water, breathable air, safe roads, emergency services, affordable healthcare for easily preventable deaths and other basic HUMAN RIGHTS. Our country is so divided by stupid crap- race and gender wars and fighting over which paid actor is the lessor dumbass who’s diddled fewer kids so we can pretend to have choices and self-determination, pretend to vote, and pretend to live in a ‘great’ country instead of a prison built (and still being built) on the backs of literal slaves.
If you think “welfare” as it currently exists is an intelligent process that is actually functional then I’m going to gander you have never looked into it. The waiting list for free mental healthcare clinics is over a year in my state, and physical healthcare options often don’t exist, the ones that do are highly inadequate to treat the vast majority of people who have no other options. Hence the drug problem.
The wealth divide now is greater than at any other time in American history- including the Great Depression, robber baron era prior to the New Deal- all while we witness record GDP. Yet still, paid politician crony frontmen for the ultra wealthy want to bring back child labor and normalise an 80 hour work week, company ‘housing’, and keep the minimum wage exactly where it was in the 1970s. Meanwhile the cost of staying alive has risen 400%.
Trickle down Reagonomics is a BS fairy tale sold to the uneducated who just accept everything they’re told, and proliferated by the privileged few who got an education for $750 a semester paid for with a summer job mowing lawns, which then allowed them to buy a $25k house and raise a family of five on one income- a job that came with healthcare and a pension, retiring at a young 55 or 65. That fairy tale only worked for a minute period of time, for 1.5 generations and then no more.
Unless what trickles down is piss. Then the fairy tale is accurate.
If you want to talk “money reinvested” into the economy- let’s abolish the loopholes allowing multi-Billion dollar corporations to pay a zero effective tax rate.
If you want to talk housing “investing” which has led to a situation of more empty houses than homeless families, let’s look at Georgist Land-Value Taxes. Boom. Housing crisis solved.
Wanna fix job mobility and healthcare? Get rid of healthcare insurance companies. 100%. Give the workers job retraining. Open up, standardise, and publicise the price structure for formularies and procedures and put all the hospital black books in a museum dedicated to the dark ages of corporate greed. Go to a single payer system like all of the other civilised countries in the world who SAVE MONEY AND HAVE HIGHER QUALITY HEALTHCARE by doing this. Let’s let the doctors and nurses go back to following the Hippocratic oath and actually helping people instead of forcing them to adopt some stock-broker level of psychopathy to argue with 8th grade level science accountant middlemen following scripts that simply say, “let the person die, unless they say ‘no’, in which case make them very, very sick”.

I could go on, but I have a feeling you don’t have a finger anywhere close to this nation’s pulse and just get your jollies patting yourself on the back for choosing to be born at the perfect time and then ignoring the people who are Actually hurting around you. It’s like no one even listened to Jesus.

[Gunrunner]

I was talking about how sometimes ‘touch’ and ‘cover’ are more valuable than ‘take’, the PIE etymological roots of which I wouldn’t have looked up without the phrase “take the chest.”
But yes, I read Ayn Rand as a teenager and found Objectivism as logically sound and compassionless as I do now, decades later. I have nothing against the concept of common currency, ownership of property, free competitive markets, and global trade. I do have a problem when the decrepit hand of evil slithers into a system, corrupts it from the inside out, and then pukes that acidic, vile duodenum upon humanity as a whole with the added bonus of an environment so far gone and past the point of being saved that all of your progeny are already dead- whether you want to admit it or not. That’s not a “theory”. That’s fact. Capitalism has stages. We are now in the late and final stage where corruption has strangled the system and all we have left is the fall of Rome gargling out those final death throe rattles. You say to blame the politicians and not the ultra wealthy greedy fucks. Ok. Who bought and paid for the politicians, the judges, the entire media empire? Who actually controls the information? the nukes? The military is just a very obedient dog. Our education system has been dismantled because we don’t want critical thinkers who may stand up for themselves and demand fair, honest wages that keep up with inflation, access to clean drinking water, breathable air, safe roads, emergency services, affordable healthcare for easily preventable deaths and other basic HUMAN RIGHTS. Our country is so divided by stupid crap- race and gender wars and fighting over which paid actor is the lessor dumbass who’s diddled fewer kids so we can pretend to have choices and self-determination, pretend to vote, and pretend to live in a ‘great’ country instead of a prison built (and still being built) on the backs of literal slaves.
If you think “welfare” as it currently exists is an intelligent process that is actually functional then I’m going to gander you have never looked into it. The waiting list for free mental healthcare clinics is over a year in my state, and physical healthcare options often don’t exist, the ones that do are highly inadequate to treat the vast majority of people who have no other options. Hence the drug problem.
The wealth divide now is greater than at any other time in American history- including the Great Depression, robber baron era prior to the New Deal- all while we witness record GDP. Yet still, paid politician crony frontmen for the ultra wealthy want to bring back child labor and normalise an 80 hour work week, company ‘housing’, and keep the minimum wage exactly where it was in the 1970s. Meanwhile the cost of staying alive has risen 400%.
Trickle down Reagonomics is a BS fairy tale sold to the uneducated who just accept everything they’re told, and proliferated by the privileged few who got an education for $750 a semester paid for with a summer job mowing lawns, which then allowed them to buy a $25k house and raise a family of five on one income- a job that came with healthcare and a pension, retiring at a young 55 or 65. That fairy tale only worked for a minute period of time, for 1.5 generations and then no more.
Unless what trickles down is piss. Then the fairy tale is accurate.
If you want to talk “money reinvested” into the economy- let’s abolish the loopholes allowing multi-Billion dollar corporations to pay a zero effective tax rate.
If you want to talk housing “investing” which has led to a situation of more empty houses than homeless families, let’s look at Georgist Land-Value Taxes. Boom. Housing crisis solved.
Wanna fix job mobility and healthcare? Get rid of healthcare insurance companies. 100%. Give the workers job retraining. Open up, standardise, and publicise the price structure for formularies and procedures and put all the hospital black books in a museum dedicated to the dark ages of corporate greed. Go to a single payer system like all of the other civilised countries in the world who SAVE MONEY AND HAVE HIGHER QUALITY HEALTHCARE by doing this. Let’s let the doctors and nurses go back to following the Hippocratic oath and actually helping people instead of forcing them to adopt some stock-broker level of psychopathy to argue with 8th grade level science accountant middlemen following scripts that simply say, “let the person die, unless they say ‘no’, in which case make them very, very sick”.

I could go on, but I have a feeling you don’t have a finger anywhere close to this nation’s pulse and just get your jollies patting yourself on the back for choosing to be born at the perfect time and then ignoring the people who are Actually hurting around you. It’s like no one even listened to Jesus.

Oh my goodness! There's a lot to unpack here. Might have to print it out and mull it over for a few years...

Quick question... Do you think Ayn Rand ever paid any attention to Jesus?

[Rose Livingstone]

Oh my goodness! There's a lot to unpack here. Might have to print it out and mull it over for a few years...

Quick question... Do you think Ayn Rand ever paid any attention to Jesus?

From what I understand, she was Obsessed with (the married) Frank Lloyd Wright (hence the Rourke profession) and tried many times to swoon in his presence. He declined.
So I’m going with: ‘she read the KJV bible cover to cover then placed it on her bookshelf next to her fairy castle snow globe and never picked it up again.’

I’ll add though that Wright’s declination is less a value statement on his morals, and more a qualitative statement on his eyesight. Again, from what I understand, he wasn’t a shiny beacon of ethics.

And yes, I also understand I have personally walked into the backyard and chosen a switch. It’s a common misconception that flexibility is less important than rigid principles.

[goldwatch]

I was talking about how sometimes ‘touch’ and ‘cover’ are more valuable than ‘take’, the PIE etymological roots of which I wouldn’t have looked up without the phrase “take the chest.”
But yes, I read Ayn Rand as a teenager and found Objectivism as logically sound and compassionless as I do now, decades later. I have nothing against the concept of common currency, ownership of property, free competitive markets, and global trade. I do have a problem when the decrepit hand of evil slithers into a system, corrupts it from the inside out, and then pukes that acidic, vile duodenum upon humanity as a whole with the added bonus of an environment so far gone and past the point of being saved that all of your progeny are already dead- whether you want to admit it or not. That’s not a “theory”. That’s fact. Capitalism has stages. We are now in the late and final stage where corruption has strangled the system and all we have left is the fall of Rome gargling out those final death throe rattles. You say to blame the politicians and not the ultra wealthy greedy fucks. Ok. Who bought and paid for the politicians, the judges, the entire media empire? Who actually controls the information? the nukes? The military is just a very obedient dog. Our education system has been dismantled because we don’t want critical thinkers who may stand up for themselves and demand fair, honest wages that keep up with inflation, access to clean drinking water, breathable air, safe roads, emergency services, affordable healthcare for easily preventable deaths and other basic HUMAN RIGHTS. Our country is so divided by stupid crap- race and gender wars and fighting over which paid actor is the lessor dumbass who’s diddled fewer kids so we can pretend to have choices and self-determination, pretend to vote, and pretend to live in a ‘great’ country instead of a prison built (and still being built) on the backs of literal slaves.
If you think “welfare” as it currently exists is an intelligent process that is actually functional then I’m going to gander you have never looked into it. The waiting list for free mental healthcare clinics is over a year in my state, and physical healthcare options often don’t exist, the ones that do are highly inadequate to treat the vast majority of people who have no other options. Hence the drug problem.
The wealth divide now is greater than at any other time in American history- including the Great Depression, robber baron era prior to the New Deal- all while we witness record GDP. Yet still, paid politician crony frontmen for the ultra wealthy want to bring back child labor and normalise an 80 hour work week, company ‘housing’, and keep the minimum wage exactly where it was in the 1970s. Meanwhile the cost of staying alive has risen 400%.
Trickle down Reagonomics is a BS fairy tale sold to the uneducated who just accept everything they’re told, and proliferated by the privileged few who got an education for $750 a semester paid for with a summer job mowing lawns, which then allowed them to buy a $25k house and raise a family of five on one income- a job that came with healthcare and a pension, retiring at a young 55 or 65. That fairy tale only worked for a minute period of time, for 1.5 generations and then no more.
Unless what trickles down is piss. Then the fairy tale is accurate.
If you want to talk “money reinvested” into the economy- let’s abolish the loopholes allowing multi-Billion dollar corporations to pay a zero effective tax rate.
If you want to talk housing “investing” which has led to a situation of more empty houses than homeless families, let’s look at Georgist Land-Value Taxes. Boom. Housing crisis solved.
Wanna fix job mobility and healthcare? Get rid of healthcare insurance companies. 100%. Give the workers job retraining. Open up, standardise, and publicise the price structure for formularies and procedures and put all the hospital black books in a museum dedicated to the dark ages of corporate greed. Go to a single payer system like all of the other civilised countries in the world who SAVE MONEY AND HAVE HIGHER QUALITY HEALTHCARE by doing this. Let’s let the doctors and nurses go back to following the Hippocratic oath and actually helping people instead of forcing them to adopt some stock-broker level of psychopathy to argue with 8th grade level science accountant middlemen following scripts that simply say, “let the person die, unless they say ‘no’, in which case make them very, very sick”.

I could go on, but I have a feeling you don’t have a finger anywhere close to this nation’s pulse and just get your jollies patting yourself on the back for choosing to be born at the perfect time and then ignoring the people who are Actually hurting around you. It’s like no one even listened to Jesus.

Wow, Rose. You are hopelessly lost.
There's so much to unpack in that comment that I'm not sure I have the energy.
Some of it has value for the problem it is, but it's clear that you are anti-capitalism and place the blame in the wrong direction.
Yes, I agree that there's corruption. There always is, nothing is perfect, and I think possibly more so now than ever in our history. But I think you missed the target by a mile.

Edit to add, I just saw Gunrunner's post using "unpack" too. But then, what else would anyone think after reading that?

[Rose Livingstone]

Wow, Rose. You are hopelessly lost.
There's so much to unpack in that comment that I'm not sure I have the energy.
Some of it has value for the problem it is, but it's clear that you are anti-capitalism and place the blame in the wrong direction.
Yes, I agree that there's corruption. There always is, nothing is perfect, and I think possibly more so now than ever in our history. But I think you missed the target by a mile.

Edit to add, I just saw Gunrunner's post using "unpack" too. But then, what else would anyone think after reading that?

I have typecast you as the type of criminal who uses his/her retirement present to send a message to “the man” for why s/he’s blowing up a bus of civilians for money.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1CurN2Fg-2E

[goldwatch]

I have typecast you as the type of criminal who uses his/her retirement present to send a message to “the man” for why s/he’s blowing up a bus of civilians for money.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1CurN2Fg-2E

I'd be a miscast in your play.

[lowkey]

Rose Livingstone You nailed it. You said it out loud, the stuff the rich sociopaths don’t want anyone talking about. I love it.

[jan_v60]

I caught only a couple of minutes of last night's Discord speakeasy voice chat, but recall kpro and others questioning the reason behind the poem having two additional stanzas after one has the chest in hand.

So, stanza 5:
You have a poem as your map of sorts, but what does it represent? The poem is not just missing a name but is also missing a theme. Look to answer the question posed. Now, how many actually did this?

The answer is known to F, but you need to think on it. No problem, he hints at it in the last line. He's done it tired and now he's week. In other words, he's on his last legs.

Last leg = final flight segment
You now have a theme and approach to the poem.

Onto stanza 6:
F recognizes there is a barrier of sorts that may have searchers second-guessing themselves. A cold but modest size creek to cross. He goads you, letting you know it will be worth it, if you are brave (you decide to cross) and you are in the wood (the cold creek).

Why the wood? You are seeking a wooden-named creek on your way to the chest.

I do not think that tired and weak refer to Forrest’s last legs.
“Tired” is something physical. After hiding the heavy treasure & chest he was tired.
”Weak” refers to emotions. Those emotions should IMO be coupled to the chest’s name “Indulgence”.
He felt weak do to emotional feelings from something that happened in the (far) past, for which he still thought he needed some Indulgence.
The two last stanza’s do not contain clues IMO, but contain hints about them and explain why he took this initiative, and how he sees the end of the treasure chase.