Tesouro Sagrado - an off-the-wall hypothesis

[voxpops]

I can already see it -- the movie opens with the blue fire of the bronze being melted, a few quick shots of the chest pieces being poured and assembled by strong, ready hands, and the nearly finished piece delivered under cover of darkness to the monastery and set before the abbot with a solid thump on an oaken table. After the cloaked delivery person leaves, the abbot lifts the lid, showing the slots ready to receive the slats he has cut -- four equal-sized slats from the same relic. He slides them into place, inscriptions hidden, hammers down the tabs to secure the panels, places his Book of Days inside, and appraises the result with a critical eye. Yes, it's good. The whole thing looks brand new. He sets it on a polished side table just as we hear the King's dogs coming, barking, and accompanying the King's soldiers.

Shift to the present. The dogs of the agents of Operation Cerberus are inside the mission, barking on the trail of Native American artifacts, as the white-robed and aging archbishop, Fenn, looks on in dismay. One of the agents lifts the lid of the empty chest and we get a close-up shot of Fenn's eyes, watching intently. After the agents leave with whatever they've decided to carry off, Fenn crams the chest full of treasure, shifts into street clothes, and instead of riding off into the desert on his burro, he just calls in the helicopter.

And we're off and running!

Love it! Now that's a story!!

[jan_v60]

I can already see it -- the movie opens with the blue fire of the bronze being melted, a few quick shots of the chest pieces being poured and assembled by strong, ready hands, and the nearly finished piece delivered under cover of darkness to the monastery and set before the abbot with a solid thump on an oaken table. After the cloaked delivery person leaves, the abbot lifts the lid, showing the slots ready to receive the slats he has cut -- four equal-sized slats from the same relic. He slides them into place, inscriptions hidden, hammers down the tabs to secure the panels, places his Book of Days inside, and appraises the result with a critical eye. Yes, it's good. The whole thing looks brand new. He sets it on a polished side table just as we hear the King's dogs coming, barking, and accompanying the King's soldiers.

Shift to the present. The dogs of the agents of Operation Cerberus are inside the mission, barking on the trail of Native American artifacts, as the white-robed and aging archbishop, Fenn, looks on in dismay. One of the agents lifts the lid of the empty chest and we get a close-up shot of Fenn's eyes, watching intently. After the agents leave with whatever they've decided to carry off, Fenn crams the chest full of treasure, shifts into street clothes, and instead of riding off into the desert on his burro, he just calls in the helicopter.

And we're off and running!

I thought that scenario writers were on strike those days

[Cary_Galloway]

The treasure does hold the title. The title is the inscription on the eye of the frog. IMO, that is a symbol for the 9-clues, and a metaphor for the "Eye." IMO, the "Eye" is a metaphor for the soul....you know, "I Am that I Am," the I of the Eye, the eye is the window to the soul, "If thine eye be single...." You know all this metaphor stuff. How else could you have come up with these ideas in the thread comment? IMO, Forrest swings from vine to vine, like he swings from metaphor to metaphor. Yeah, Indulgence and Tarzan too.

Serious question: are you on drugs 24/7?

[Goldilocks]

voxpops What do you think Forrest was emphasizing in TTOTC when he highlighted in red, twice, DO NOT TOUCH! ? The chapter is Teachers with Ropes. Jesus...the great teacher.

[trueyeti]

Serious question: are you on drugs 24/7?

Don't be ridiculous. Of course I am. Don't be ridiculous. When do I take them you ask? Only every second, of every minute, of every hour, of every day. Only the very best drugs, and only the very best drinks, do I do too. What is your excuse? hahahahaha

By the way, if you think about the eye and "I," then what is the difference? What is the similarity? Well then, there you go. Another thing....is eye and "I" a "word that is key?" Why, or why not? Is the Rosetta Stone a "key?' Is there an eye on the frog? Is there an "I" in the poem on the first and the last lines of the poem? How does the "I" in the poem relate to the eye (and its' symbol) on the frog? If your imagination can't "stretch to fit" just a bit, then your imagination is ridiculous......don't be ridiculous. Hahahahaha

[trueyeti]

I think that's a good way to look at it: "guideposts along the way." I agree that this line of enquiry won't reveal anything by itself. But I have to admit how surprised I was at the way it fitted so many elements of what we've seen and learned. Perhaps we could view it as a possible parallel to what Fenn is hinting at (or metaphoric signpost, to misquote trueyeti).

IMO, it is difficult to misquote a metaphor. Quote by Johann Wolfgang von Goethe: “All that is transitory is but a metaphor.”

IMO, all things are linked.... Come to think of it, a treasure hunt is all about connecting the dots, so as to follow the breadcrumbs that are laid down on the ground by the architect. In this case Forrest Fenn. IMO, the first breadcrumb is the location where the first clue is at. The trail of metaphors starts there...at "guidepost 000." But there's a signpost up ahead. That place on the sign is somewhere between this place and the next.....located in the wanning area between the day and the night.....found somewhere in the boundary layer between the known and the unknown. That in between area is the somewhere place area that you have now entered.....The location place, the area known......is the "Twilight Zone." hehehehe

[Sunburnt1]

Do not touch =Halt- Stop . There is something that makes people stop ( water or a physical no trespassing sign) after the second clue that made them go right past where they needed to go. Hundreds of people. 500 ft away. And yet there is something distinctive only 200 ft away . That you could tell Forrest exactly where you were. People seem to not understand that. If you are within 200ft. There has to be something distinct you could describe to Forrest. That he would know exactly where you were. You couldn't just say I was by a tree with a wise owl in it and it flew away. Like supposedly someone did.....

[trueyeti]

Yes, but in the end are we to find the truth that the metaphors point to? There has to be a reason for Fenn choosing that particular chest, and for the LLC being called "Sacred." IMO there's something at the heart of all this mystery and strangeness - something more than a metaphor.

What I wrote in this thread is just one rather far-fetched idea, but I was amazed that the more I thought about it, the more it all seemed to fit. Mind you we all had that problem with our solves!

I like your idea. It does fit. Creation. You have had a breakthrough. (IMO, this is what Forrest shares/inspires with us). We are inspired....

When you wrote, "but in the end are we to find the truth that the metaphors point to?" It struck me. IMO, an answer "yes" or "no" is like a coin....on one side there is a "yes," and on the other side is a "no." "Yes" side.....a "truth," or "the truth," or several "truths." (Meaning.) On the other side of the coin is "No," a particular hole where the treasure laid with no meaning and no "truth." But a coin has 360 degrees of separation....and what if the coin is spinning, rather than landed? IMO....it is not possible to call it one way or the other in that instance....and that is what the answer to the question you pose is...IMO.

As messed up as it is.....it compares by analogy and metaphor to the problem of calculating the position of a subatomic particle's position as it orbits around the nucleus of an atom. They can't call it....just like a coin in the air....hahahaha....

Google says: Quantum Objects Are Simultaneously in All Locations
How about that for metaphors and the truth? hahahaha....a coin toss....a metaphor for quantum objects. hahaha....

Seriously though....

IMO, there is the middle ground where meaning is found (Forrest's secrets exposed, and Forrest's answers known), and where the hole in the ground (hidey hole) is known.

IMO....9MH....has a hole, but no meaning. IMO, "where the first clue is," is the first breadcrumb to find the "truths" and to find the "hidey hole."

I have something else to add regarding the "sacred," and "but in the end are we to find the truth that the metaphors point to?" And that is The Gospel of Thomas, number 18:

The disciples said to Jesus, "Tell us, how will our end come?"
Jesus said, "Have you found he beginning, then, that you are looking for the end? You see, the end will be where the beginning is.
Congratulations to the one who stands at the beginning: that one will know the end and will not taste death."

IMO, this reflects the T.S. Elliot poem, includes something sacred, is a metaphor, and it is truth, all at the same time. (It is similar to what Google says about quantum mechanics too). Hahaha....the movie, "Everything, Everywhere, All at Once." IMO, you could interpret that number 18....as reflecting what Forrest said, when he said, "where the first clue is." (IMO....that is "different" from the first clue). "Where the first clue is at," is the beginning......

Well, you have had a breakthrough towards understanding something that you have discovered. Marvelous! Congratulations.....keep trucking and keep on keeping on....until the next Eureka moment......that is the thrill of the chase after all.....IMO.

PS....you needn't be on drugs "to enjoy the ride." Enjoy!

[aqua807]

Just to add to the plot of the epic movie being developed here, if you number the first line of the poem as 1 and treat that as an "I" and combine it with "As I ha" and anagram all that, you get Isaiah, one of the Old Testament prophets. "As" and "I" atomically--elementally--are 33 and 53, for a total of 86. "Have"--halve--86 and you get 43. Or for the movie plot, 40 3. 40:3
Isaiah 40:3 is the bible passage that foretells the coming of John the Baptist: "The voice of him that crieth in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the Lord, make straight in the desert a highway for our God."
Maybe that verse could be a clue pointing the heros toward the treasure. It's the partial basis for one of the songs in the musical "Godspell," so there's a musical tie-in.

The voice crying out in the wilderness is also the motto of Dartmouth College--"Vox clamantis in deserto." So there's a possible Ivy League/academic tie-in. Seems like every good treasure hunting movie involves romping across a college campus and searching in one old library full of dusty old books. Right before the villains blow up the library.

[voxpops]

voxpops What do you think Forrest was emphasizing in TTOTC when he highlighted in red, twice, DO NOT TOUCH! ? The chapter is Teachers with Ropes. Jesus...the great teacher.

One of the advantages I found through reading TTOTC in its entirety for the first time, having already been in the chase for the best part of a decade, was the lens through which I viewed it. I was no longer hunting for a location and so not concerned with finding hints to a spot in the RMs. What I realized, rightly or wrongly, was that it describes his clandestine activities, sometimes quite graphically. Teaching and learning how to survive in the most dangerous situations - where you wouldn't normally go - required the utmost care and attention, as well as an understanding of the role of intuition, or "faith," if you prefer.

Although many here believe that Bible verses (which he specifically discounted) play a major role, I think his relationship with the Bible was more subtle. As a collector and, to a certain extent, a historian, he may have viewed ancient texts from more of an anthropological standpoint. I don't think we can say what his spiritual beliefs truly encompassed, but I feel sure that he was deeply spiritual, particularly in later life.

[voxpops]

I like your idea. It does fit. Creation. You have had a breakthrough. (IMO, this is what Forrest shares/inspires with us). We are inspired....

When you wrote, "but in the end are we to find the truth that the metaphors point to?" It struck me. IMO, an answer "yes" or "no" is like a coin....on one side there is a "yes," and on the other side is a "no." "Yes" side.....a "truth," or "the truth," or several "truths." (Meaning.) On the other side of the coin is "No," a particular hole where the treasure laid with no meaning and no "truth." But a coin has 360 degrees of separation....and what if the coin is spinning, rather than landed? IMO....it is not possible to call it one way or the other in that instance....and that is what the answer to the question you pose is...IMO.

As messed up as it is.....it compares by analogy and metaphor to the problem of calculating the position of a subatomic particle's position as it orbits around the nucleus of an atom. They can't call it....just like a coin in the air....hahahaha....

Google says: Quantum Objects Are Simultaneously in All Locations
How about that for metaphors and the truth? hahahaha....a coin toss....a metaphor for quantum objects. hahaha....

Seriously though....

IMO, there is the middle ground where meaning is found (Forrest's secrets exposed, and Forrest's answers known), and where the hole in the ground (hidey hole) is known.

IMO....9MH....has a hole, but no meaning. IMO, "where the first clue is," is the first breadcrumb to find the "truths" and to find the "hidey hole."

I have something else to add regarding the "sacred," and "but in the end are we to find the truth that the metaphors point to?" And that is The Gospel of Thomas, number 18:

The disciples said to Jesus, "Tell us, how will our end come?"
Jesus said, "Have you found he beginning, then, that you are looking for the end? You see, the end will be where the beginning is.
Congratulations to the one who stands at the beginning: that one will know the end and will not taste death."

IMO, this reflects the T.S. Elliot poem, includes something sacred, is a metaphor, and it is truth, all at the same time. (It is similar to what Google says about quantum mechanics too). Hahaha....the movie, "Everything, Everywhere, All at Once." IMO, you could interpret that number 18....as reflecting what Forrest said, when he said, "where the first clue is." (IMO....that is "different" from the first clue). "Where the first clue is at," is the beginning......

Well, you have had a breakthrough towards understanding something that you have discovered. Marvelous! Congratulations.....keep trucking and keep on keeping on....until the next Eureka moment......that is the thrill of the chase after all.....IMO.

PS....you needn't be on drugs "to enjoy the ride." Enjoy!

There is some great stuff here, trueyeti. You've highlighted how philosophy and science have been gradually coalescing over the past century. It is an exciting time as the veil is pulled back from old mysteries to reveal even more amazing new mysteries. There is no end and therefore no beginning - or both are one, as you so eloquently state.

[trueyeti]

There is some great stuff here, trueyeti. You've highlighted how philosophy and science have been gradually coalescing over the past century. It is an exciting time as the veil is pulled back from old mysteries to reveal even more amazing new mysteries. There is no end and therefore no beginning - or both are one, as you so eloquently state.

Well, cool....But maybe Forrest is actually dialed in on this kind of stuff. IMO, art (a poem)....conveys meaning for the observer/reader to consider......

Think of your favorite song....that conveys meaning to you....beyond what the lyrics say. IMO....Forrest's poem/treasure hunt is conveying meaning beyond just the chest (the "lyrics" of the poem - if you will) - IMO. Often there are metaphors/symbols in art and stories that serve to "grab you" and take you away......IMO, that is the attraction of our species to story that grabs us - for an adventure. As cavemen we sat around the campfire and told stories and went into caves and drew pictures on the wall - while on psilocybin/psychedelics. I guess that was the 3-D IMAX experience 50,000 years ago. hahahaha..... It was an adventure that "grabbed" them to be sure.....can you imagine?

Did you know that in some systems, the job of the trickster archetype is to "trick" you into happiness? Yeah....4 cards and a joker - and you play whether you want to or not. "Happiness" is the pot in that quote. Hahhahahaha. Is Forrest a trickster? Mandrake Fenn....the magician is akin to the trickster, IMO.

[voxpops]

Did you know that in some systems, the job of the trickster archetype is to "trick" you into happiness? Yeah....4 cards and a joker - and you play whether you want to or not. "Happiness" is the pot in that quote. Hahhahahaha. Is Forrest a trickster? Mandrake Fenn....the magician is akin to the trickster, IMO.

Funnily enough, I used to think of him as the "master trickster" and I recall threads about how that faculty might be used to help us see differently, and consequently make attitudinal changes. Back in September 2019 I wrote this to FF after failing - yet again - but assuming the whole thing was the trickster's (slightly cruel) joke. In a small fit of pique, I titled the email, "Your bracelet's in the mail!"

"Ha ha! Trickster 1, Search Community 0.

Now, I'm not known for being observant, and sometimes I'm sloppy, so I could so eaily have missed something, but I think I've got this situation pegged. I sat on the big flat rock and looked out over the creek and the highway to Kokopelli and smiled. It's a beautiful morning here, and I felt at peace. Now I don't know whether to laugh or rage: the things I put myself and my wife through!"

Looking back, I realize that while he may have been a trickster, he wasn't joking.

[RahRah]

One of the advantages I found through reading TTOTC in its entirety for the first time, having already been in the chase for the best part of a decade, was the lens through which I viewed it. I was no longer hunting for a location and so not concerned with finding hints to a spot in the RMs. What I realized, rightly or wrongly, was that it describes his clandestine activities, sometimes quite graphically. Teaching and learning how to survive in the most dangerous situations - where you wouldn't normally go - required the utmost care and attention, as well as an understanding of the role of intuition, or "faith," if you prefer.

Although many here believe that Bible verses (which he specifically discounted) play a major role, I think his relationship with the Bible was more subtle. As a collector and, to a certain extent, a historian, he may have viewed ancient texts from more of an anthropological standpoint. I don't think we can say what his spiritual beliefs truly encompassed, but I feel sure that he was deeply spiritual, particularly in later life.

Reading between the lines definitely shows he describes his activities - I'm glad I'm not the only one who sees that!

[trueyeti]

Funnily enough, I used to think of him as the "master trickster" and I recall threads about how that faculty might be used to help us see differently, and consequently make attitudinal changes. Back in September 2019 I wrote this to FF after failing - yet again - but assuming the whole thing was the trickster's (slightly cruel) joke. In a small fit of pique, I titled the email, "Your bracelet's in the mail!"

"Ha ha! Trickster 1, Search Community 0.

Now, I'm not known for being observant, and sometimes I'm sloppy, so I could so eaily have missed something, but I think I've got this situation pegged. I sat on the big flat rock and looked out over the creek and the highway to Kokopelli and smiled. It's a beautiful morning here, and I felt at peace. Now I don't know whether to laugh or rage: the things I put myself and my wife through!"

Looking back, I realize that while he may have been a trickster, he wasn't joking.

What a great experience conveyed....well done. Oh....your story resounds within our collective experiences of TTOTC, and there, is where the echoes of our individual experiences are still felt, and are still real.....IMO. The adventure is still there, IMO. I enjoy C.G Jung. I've been wandering through a lecture series on YouTube about his "Red Book." In his analysis of depth of psychology, I find a lot of parallels with my experiences with my life and with TTOTC too (and Forrest). I mention it because IMO, depth psychology is the fertile ground.....where Forrest set up his labyrinth that we do so enjoy! hahahaha The labyrinth is a playground for a trickster.....and a treasure hunt is supposed to be fun.....IMO. (There you go jan, IMO) hehehehehe