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  • #46
    Originally posted by Trailblazer99 View Post

    Imo I think we should look at all the evidence and the bigger picture. I believe my solve yes but I realize there is no way to prove this. I can give evidence to support anything you ask but it’s physically impossible to prove this. Someone out there knows the solution or at least part of it. I would also say that most of us think there is more to the poem than just definitions in a poem. It took him 15 years to write the poem. He said he felt like an architect. He said 3 times he hid a “treasure” before 2009-2010. People have found hidden images within the poem, like a map. People have found ciphers hidden within the poem. Forrest even commented on the said cipher. All we have is Forrest fenns word to go off of. I think many people have parts of the solve but just in the wrong location. Like the images pulled from the poem that wasn’t just found by one person. Those images were found by multiple people. So surely there are people who know bits a pieces of a solve and surely they’re all not gonna be in the same location. I think people within the community have enough evidence and Forrest fenns words to piece together the puzzle pieces. I will stand by my solution of course but I can only prove a couple things based off of Forrest fenns words. If it all can’t be proved the community will tell you it’s a bunch of coincidences. Maybe the solution will come out one day and we can look back on this thread and my message and say “ya someone did have most of it figured out” or “ya we really did have pieces of the puzzle scattered through out the communities thoughts” I just keep an open mind though. I think of the things Forrest said and how they relate and I keep an open mind to others ideas.
    I think that's a healthy perspective, Trailblazer99 . There are some great ideas presented on this forum, worthy of respect and open-minded discussion.

    As we move forward it just strikes me more and more forcibly that there's something that we're all missing - a piece to the jigsaw that not one of us has found. So far the big picture remains incomplete.

    Comment


    • #47
      Originally posted by voxpops View Post
      I'm beginning to think that all solves are irrelevant. So many of us are adamant that we have the correct solution and yet that's just not possible in a "linear" hunt. So let's think laterally and in parallel. Imagine for a moment that Fenn's entire chase was built around something other than a chest of gold in the Rockies. The treasure chest may have been real, but only as a lure and decoy. What if he had something completely different (and very much of this world) on his mind as an end goal?
      This is what it was for me. All the definitions lined up. The images in the poem lined up/a blueprint and the Lewis and Clark cipher lined up. As well as a bunch of aberrations. At the end of the poem I didn’t find a box of gold but something else. It goes hand in hand with what Forrest said about hiding a “treasure” before writing the poem. He’s said this like 3 times. That puts a “treasure” in the Rockies years before 2009-2010. It’s still a “treasure” to Forrest but not a box of gold. “Everyone is guilty of a little false advertisement” “I’m only guilty by innuendo” “I wish I could have lived to do the things I was attributed to” what if all the definitions and evidence lined up but it just wasn’t a box of gold but still a “treasure” it’s obvious he speaks about 2 different things. But that’s my rant for the day. This is exactly how it worked for me.

      Comment


      • #48
        Originally posted by voxpops View Post

        I think that's a healthy perspective, Trailblazer99 . There are some great ideas presented on this forum, worthy of respect and open-minded discussion.

        As we move forward it just strikes me more and more forcibly that there's something that we're all missing - a piece to the jigsaw that not one of us has found. So far the big picture remains incomplete.
        Maybe one day it will be all revealed. All I can say is imo the images in the poem and the Lewis and Clark cipher are very relevant to the true solve. And I think the one thing that nobody thought of was “a treasure of another kind” as douglas Preston said.

        Comment


        • #49
          Originally posted by voxpops View Post
          Knowledge says:
          "Remember this you were told the place and you and others couldn't see it"

          Tim (ZosoRocks) says:
          "Again, you see what you are only want to see."

          I don't think you both together could have illustrated the problem any clearer. If you'd like to sort it out between you and let me know who's got the correct facts, that would be extremely helpful . In the meantime I can only continue to ask whether we're all barking up the wrong tree . . .

          Thanks to trueyeti and to the Not4but242Walk for their psychologically nuanced arguments (even if they are still making much the same sort of claim, but nicely veiled! ). I found your post interesting to read, trueyeti as, right or wrong in your spot, you recognize an added depth to the chase.
          First off voxpops - I am not like others you are trying to group me into.

          Unlike you and many others.....I am actively trying to dismiss my solution AND others. I will add - whom are not doing this action.

          Soooo...with you claiming to know anything about me, my goals, my resolve. Well, you should not project. You are incorrect.

          Showing us you clearly are not partial to a true ending, because all you continue to do is verbally object to others solves.

          ....this is a far cry from actually supporting your position in that "Everyone is biased with their own solve." Maybe you should show nothing to support your Unfounded claim.

          You made another false statement again. That is strike two for you.

          You dont have the courage to find out you failed, huh?

          This is understandable....but it is not a valid reason to dictate a fake narrative or by doing so, encouraging others to do the same.

          But here we are....at an empasse knowing so many solves exist...but yet.....you are DOING NOTHING to help eliminate them to find the one true one. Gotcha

          I encourage you to dismiss my solution.......but you choose otherwise.

          Don't push your doubt onto me.....I have gone through that phase years ago.....you do understand my words I speak, right?

          Like I said.. anyone can spout off why they think someone is wrong....this is their goal.......but to take the initiative to dismantle that which they object to......well.....that is real courage that many refuse to take.

          It iis an individual like this who fail to achieve that which they speak out on. *sighs*

          we all have been playing this "same ol-same ol" game....but unlike you.... I for one, am tired of the "excuses people use".....or choose.....they truly do not want to make this world a better place.

          It's time to evolve voxpops - it will occur with or without your help.

          Good luck and thanks for the discussion....and rant!

          Comment


          • #50
            When I was in Wyoming and northern Colorado this summer, it occurred to me that I was gradually becoming more content with the way the chase has panned out. For me, there's some relief that I have no bronze chest - and the associated craziness - to deal with, but also a sense of renewal in that I'm becoming more certain that the truth behind the chase is still awaiting discovery - hence this thread. Beyond that, I'm not interested in trying to prove a negative on competing claims, but will wait until someone comes forward with proof positive of Fenn's "legacy." In the meantime I shall continue to delve into the mystery, but without worrying about where the chest was actually hidden, as I'm ever more convinced that our mission lies elsewhere.

            Comment


            • #51
              I think of these myriad solves as individual aspen trees- sharing the same root, the same underground network, the same DNA even, just spread out and poking through the surface at different times and intervals. A person walking through a grove- a thick ambling walk in between, around the forest- sees the trees as separate entities- yet maybe not realizing they're only standing in the middle of a singular organism. Yes, all y'all solves are individual trees- and none of them are the entire grove. Look at the big picture. Your individual solve does not make the solves of others' incorrect. We have more in common than reaching for the sky.

              Comment


              • #52
                Originally posted by Rose Livingstone View Post
                I think of these myriad solves as individual aspen trees- sharing the same root, the same underground network, the same DNA even, just spread out and poking through the surface at different times and intervals. A person walking through a grove- a thick ambling walk in between, around the forest- sees the trees as separate entities- yet maybe not realizing they're only standing in the middle of a singular organism. Yes, all y'all solves are individual trees- and none of them are the entire grove. Look at the big picture. Your individual solve does not make the solves of others' incorrect. We have more in common than reaching for the sky.
                That's a great way of putting it, Rose - love the aspen analogy.

                Comment


                • #53
                  @voxpoos wrote:
                  "In the meantime I can only continue to ask whether we're all barking up the wrong tree . . ."

                  You have not asked anything, but have only told others what you don't like....and.....you did it without any support to add.

                  C'mon voxpops....you do realize there are some smart people ourt here in the Chase.....Please do not think we are just tagging along for a ride.....that is tom-foolery.

                  If you have read everything I have written....I provide no tom-foolery......just facts. And all you do is turn a blind eye.

                  *sighs* I really had thought much higher of you in the past. I have corrected that thinking.

                  And to say you are here to determine answers....well....rebuking them without any attempt to do so, jusy shows us all you cannot.

                  if one cannot dismiss the facts, one must accept the facts.

                  Good luck.
                  Tim

                  Comment


                  • #54
                    Originally posted by voxpops View Post
                    When I was in Wyoming and northern Colorado this summer, it occurred to me that I was gradually becoming more content with the way the chase has panned out. For me, there's some relief that I have no bronze chest - and the associated craziness - to deal with, but also a sense of renewal in that I'm becoming more certain that the truth behind the chase is still awaiting discovery - hence this thread. Beyond that, I'm not interested in trying to prove a negative on competing claims, but will wait until someone comes forward with proof positive of Fenn's "legacy." In the meantime I shall continue to delve into the mystery, but without worrying about where the chest was actually hidden, as I'm ever more convinced that our mission lies elsewhere.
                    I was in Wyoming/Colorado/Utah/Idaho for a month long road trip with my kids and husband (he was there 10-days) - we got back a couple of weeks ago. I love that area of the country and it was our annual vacation out west, so we stopped by our old stomping grounds of our search and it was a nice remembrance of our searches there; but I know now it wasn't there (at least I no longer think my solve was correct, as fitting as it was) - there a piece has remained elusive to me, and I now think it has because what I worked out was wrong. But I had some right (I think).

                    We didn't go searching this year - strictly enjoying ourselves and doing things we enjoy.....the kids went fish fossil digging, did a dino dig at one of the museums (out in the field, real dig site), and we explored places we'd missed on trips taken in the past. Did we go to Yellowstone? Yup! We enjoy various hikes and places there and it was on our way to West Yellowstone, our jumping point into ID. We did make a stop at Nine Mile Hole, if only for me to look around and realize it was NOT there. I hadn't ever considered NMH, and remain in the camp that it is not the correct location, especially now after going there.

                    Gold and More implies, to me, that there is more to this than a box of gold. "I can keep my TREASURES where" is plural, more than one. At some point, as Fenn reminded us, the truth will come out.
                    Last edited by RahRah; 09-26-2022, 02:24 PM.
                    Lost Time is never found again. - Benjamin Franklin​

                    Comment


                    • #55
                      Originally posted by Tim (ZosoRocks) View Post
                      @voxpoos wrote:
                      "In the meantime I can only continue to ask whether we're all barking up the wrong tree . . ."

                      You have not asked anything, but have only told others what you don't like....and.....you did it without any support to add.
                      Oh, for goodness sake, Tim, this whole thread is a question! But at the heart of it is how to accommodate multiple solves that are poles apart into a narrative that will move us forward. It's simply illogical to have people claiming the correct solve without producing tangible and unassailable evidence, unless it somehow feeds into the overall chase narrative. Rose Livingstone said it beautifully and poetically above that they may be interweaving strands of something larger, and I think they are the precursor to new discoveries. The individual solves may not matter, but the belief may be important - that's what I suggested earlier (nothing to do with not liking things).

                      Originally posted by Tim (ZosoRocks) View Post
                      If you have read everything I have written....I provide no tom-foolery......just facts. And all you do is turn a blind eye.
                      I'm sure I haven't read everything you've written, and although I read quite a lot of your posts in the past, I've little interest left in individual bronze chest solves anymore, as I think they may no longer be particularly relevant.

                      Originally posted by Tim (ZosoRocks) View Post
                      *sighs* I really had thought much higher of you in the past. I have corrected that thinking.
                      Tim, this is what you said in your first post on this thread:
                      "Please take the time to read my posts.
                      The answers are all there.​"


                      Since you know all the answers, you don't need to try to browbeat me into analyzing your work. And since you've lowered your opinion of me it would be pointless, as you wouldn't value what I might have said. But in any event it is not something I want to do.

                      Originally posted by Tim (ZosoRocks) View Post
                      And to say you are here to determine answers....well....rebuking them without any attempt to do so, jusy shows us all you cannot.

                      if one cannot dismiss the facts, one must accept the facts.
                      I hadn't heard of Hitchen's Razor until recently. I think it's appropriate here:

                      https://lifelessons.co/critical-thin...ical-razors/#3
                      Hitchen’s razor

                      “What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence.” – Christopher Hitchens

                      Hitchen’s razor ties in nicely with the Sagan standard.

                      If someone is going to assert something without evidence, especially an extraordinary claim that demands evidence, you can dismiss it without evidence.
                      This is because the burden of proof is always on the one making the claim, not the other way around.
                      [my bold]

                      For example: If I claim to be able to contact the dead, predict the future, read minds etc. it’s not up to you to prove that I can’t – it’s up to me to prove that I can.

                      I’m the one making the claim – therefore it’s up to me to prove it.

                      However, if someone is making extraordinary claims that demand evidence, but is unable or unwilling to provide that evidence, you can dismiss those claims without evidence. There is simply no need to waste time arguing against unsubstantiated claims. [my bold]

                      Hitchens razor will save you a lot of time, because most people don’t have any evidence to back up their assertions.
                      Last edited by voxpops; 09-26-2022, 03:04 PM.

                      Comment


                      • #56
                        Originally posted by RahRah View Post

                        I was in Wyoming/Colorado/Utah/Idaho for a month long road trip with my kids and husband (he was there 10-days) - we got back a couple of weeks ago. I love that area of the country and it was our annual vacation out west, so we stopped by our old stomping grounds of our search and it was a nice remembrance of our searches there; but I know now it wasn't there (at least I no longer think my solve was correct, as fitting as it was) - there a piece has remained elusive to me, and I now think it has because what I worked out was wrong. But I had some right (I think).

                        We didn't go searching this year - strictly enjoying ourselves and doing things we enjoy.....the kids went fish fossil digging, did a dino dig at one of the museums (out in the field, real dig site), and we explored places we'd missed on trips taken in the past. Did we go to Yellowstone? Yup! We enjoy various hikes and places there and it was on our way to West Yellowstone, our jumping point into ID. We did make a stop at Nine Mile Hole, if only for me to look around and realize it was NOT there. I hadn't ever considered NMH, and remain in the camp that it is not the correct location, especially now after going there.

                        Gold and More implies, to me, that there is more to this than a box of gold. "I can keep my TREASURES where" is plural, more than one. At some point, as Fenn reminded us, the truth will come out.
                        My story was similar in some respects. After a 3-year hiatus, due to Covid, my wife was desperate to come back to the US to visit family and pay respects to those who had passed while we'd been away. I also wanted to put my solve to bed finally, too, and to visit an area near Lander that has been haunting me for years, but where I'd never actually been, physically. Unfortunately the trip started off with a bout of food poisoning, followed by a heatwave that made walking uncomfortable. But I was still able to see what I needed to see there, and also at Canyon Pintado in CO, where I'd been before. And as a bonus I got to travel through Flaming Gorge, which was on my bucket list.

                        I would describe the trip as cathartic as I no longer feel the need to worry about solves. But I agree with your final paragraph. The truth will come out, and it will likely be unexpected.

                        Comment


                        • #57
                          Still thinking I am like others, huh?

                          "Since you know all the answers, you don't need to try to browbeat me into analyzing your work. And since you've lowered your opinion of me it would be pointless, as you wouldn't value what I might have said. But in any event it is not something I want to do."

                          Oh - I have valued your posts for many years.....that is why I approached you.....anticipating you to be forthright and honest and helpful. Clearly, you are not. My apologies for giving you those traits erroneously.

                          And no....there is no brow beating. Just me being DIRECT, HONEST, AND showing how you will say something, but do something completely different.

                          I have encouraged (you and thousands of others) to dismiss. Dismantle, rip apart, .my facts with other true facts, but yet, you and countless others chose to not even do that, with only fault of your own.

                          And you claim to want to find out the ending? You are doing a terrible job at achieving this.

                          No worries. Please do not project your thoughts onto me unless you are correct. So far, you have not been.

                          And for goodness sakes (while you bring it up), it would be very good if you just use your scientific prowess to actually do something with it....you know...like begin dismissing my VERIFIED facts.

                          I can see now how Forrest saw others - those who will say what they think others want to hear, but in truth, they just continue to pull the wool over those unsuspecting eyes.

                          Why don't you use your supposed "Hitchens" argument and actually present something?

                          I have presented plenty WITH FACTUAL EVIDENCE. But here you are the one who is outright dismissing them without any physical proof.

                          We are on completely different levels of thought. Do you want to cone back up to my level?

                          - Talk about your lack of using "Hitchens" as your muse.....with accuracy.

                          "“What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence.” – Christopher Hitchens

                          Hitchen’s razor ties in nicely with the Sagan standard.

                          If someone is going to assert something without evidence, especially an extraordinary claim that demands evidence, you can dismiss it without evidence.
                          This is because the burden of proof is always on the one making the claim, not the other way around. [my bold]​"

                          Uhm...FACTS, EVIDENCE, ANYTHING ELSE YOU NEED... ALL HAVE BEEN POSTED by me.....not so much with others. So your use of "Hitchens" here is invalid.

                          Strike three on the falsehoods voxpops.

                          WOW! ....and you can't see this? Or you choose to ignore it. Hmmmm.

                          Probably, because you refused to tackle them yourself - and this, not able to see them to be the way you chose. Gotcha.

                          "You see what you want to see" is an accurate statement I made for your current actions - because you confirmed it with your posting here. Thank you.

                          This is the difference you fail to see. I am not like your other searchers. I am tryingbto end this....but folks like you, are not....even when you falsely say you are.

                          If you are....our discussion should never have happened.

                          Please do not include me with your "other" solvers....thank you.

                          Thanks for responding.

                          Be safe vox.
                          Tim

                          Comment


                          • #58
                            Originally posted by voxpops View Post

                            My story was similar in some respects. After a 3-year hiatus, due to Covid, my wife was desperate to come back to the US to visit family and pay respects to those who had passed while we'd been away. I also wanted to put my solve to bed finally, too, and to visit an area near Lander that has been haunting me for years, but where I'd never actually been, physically. Unfortunately the trip started off with a bout of food poisoning, followed by a heatwave that made walking uncomfortable. But I was still able to see what I needed to see there, and also at Canyon Pintado in CO, where I'd been before. And as a bonus I got to travel through Flaming Gorge, which was on my bucket list.

                            I would describe the trip as cathartic as I no longer feel the need to worry about solves. But I agree with your final paragraph. The truth will come out, and it will likely be unexpected.
                            My condolences for your losses.

                            Flaming Gorge is beautiful - last year, on our annual vacation - my husband, son and two friends got to do a guided fishing day down the Green River and had an amazing time. We (those that didn't go fishing) stayed in Dutch John and spent the day exploring all around the Flaming Gorge, from the dam to Red Canyon, up and around to Green River, WY, then back again.....stunning views everywhere! This year we only passed through on our way to Dinosaur NM, which is worth the trip too if you have time if you're ever back to visit.....especially if you enjoy dinosaur things and fossils, etc.
                            Lost Time is never found again. - Benjamin Franklin​

                            Comment


                            • #59
                              Originally posted by RahRah View Post

                              My condolences for your losses.
                              Thanks, RahRah.

                              Originally posted by RahRah View Post
                              Flaming Gorge is beautiful - last year, on our annual vacation - my husband, son and two friends got to do a guided fishing day down the Green River and had an amazing time. We (those that didn't go fishing) stayed in Dutch John and spent the day exploring all around the Flaming Gorge, from the dam to Red Canyon, up and around to Green River, WY, then back again.....stunning views everywhere! This year we only passed through on our way to Dinosaur NM, which is worth the trip too if you have time if you're ever back to visit.....especially if you enjoy dinosaur things and fossils, etc.
                              Yes, Flaming Gorge is amazing and I wish I'd been able to spend time there.

                              On one of my previous trips I'd been out to Dinosaur, CO (north of Rangely) and spent a little time at one of the overlooks imagining the far distant past. There's so much that I'd like to see having spent years on Chase trips, which meant that I frequently passed by other tempting places of interest. I'm not sure I'll ever be able to return to the Rockies again, but the memories last a lifetime.

                              Comment


                              • #60
                                RahRah Can I ask why after visiting Nine Mile Hole do you feel even more certain that it wasn't there? I'm trying to compare my raw impression (without considering the treasure hunt) of the locale to that of others.

                                Comment

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