Forrest Fenn CIA connections?

[ravenhome777]

Does anyone know if Forrest Fenn has CIA connections?

The reason that I ask is because there seems to be a firewall between the CIA and fame. I no longer believe the notion that people accidentally become famous. People who become famous are almost always chosen by the CIA before they become famous. When you watch interviews with Dave McGowan about the 1960s hippie counter culture, you begin to connect the dots. This movement didn't grow organically out of thin air. It was manufactured by the CIA.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dSzmvkja-qQ

All of the groups that came out of Laurel Canyon (The Doors, The Mamas and the Papas, Crosby, Stills, Nash and Young, Frank Zappa) had military backgrounds. There was also Lookout Mountain Military Base at the top of the canyon, that all of the hippies had to report to. The night clubs popped up out of nowhere. Money poured in to create this party for the people. It distorted the public consciousness and created divide, which was the intended effect.

Forrest Fenn seems to be very interested in the "fame process". How to make one's self become famous. He even has a video about this which has absolutely fascinated me for several years now. I have watched this video at least 300 times:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DlqHbKNyFjg

In the video, he describes the "fame process". He says:

"Ricky Nelson was never known to carry a tune, but, by god you loved the way he sang. I liked everything about him, but he was manufactured. Marilyn Monroe was the same way. Threw a picture on his desk and said "Let's do it to this one." I mean, how did Andy Warhol get there? Painting Campbell soup cans? Sure he did. 80 million dollars."

Fenn also says, "Give me 250 thousand dollars and I can make you an important singer or painter at your option." Note that he says "I". If you know Fenn, he can hook you up with the right people. It's not just 250 thousand dollars that you need. You need Fenn. He knows people.

Think about the part in the video where he says "There's only one thing that keeps me right now from being the world's greatest painter, and that's talent. I've got everything else. I just don't have the talent."

What does he mean when he says "he has everything else"? What is "everything else"? Is that the knowledge of the "fame process" or a connection in the CIA or Hollywood? Or both?

As we all know well, Fenn obviously had a military background. He also seemed to be quite well known in socialite circles. How many art dealers have Jackie Kennedy stop by and spend the night?

I think there might be more to this story than we know.

Also, when I think about Fenn as the pied piper and the following that he amassed, it reminds me a little bit of the Grateful Dead. He created a counter culture - a following - a community. Did he do this single-handedly? At first glance it seems so, but, as we should know by now, the news is a completely controlled entity. There are many videos of reporters on local news channels saying the exact same thing verbatim, which tells us that all news is controlled by a common source:

https://www.brighteon.com/00000000-0...5-826806521001


Being that all news is controlled by a common source, there is a firewall that cherry picks what the news will report and what it will not report. Clearly, the news loved reporting on Forrest Fenn and his treasure hunt. Somehow he was able to pass the media firewall. But how?

Well, we know he had a lot of friends in high places. Perhaps he pulled some strings to get the OK for news coverage? If that's the case, I wonder which friends were tapped on the shoulder. I also wonder if they might be CIA. The CIA seems to have permeated all of Hollywood and the media.

[voxpops]

Does anyone know if Forrest Fenn has CIA connections?

The reason that I ask is because there seems to be a firewall between the CIA and fame. I no longer believe the notion that people accidentally become famous. People who become famous are almost always chosen by the CIA before they become famous. When you watch interviews with Dave McGowan about the 1960s hippie counter culture, you begin to connect the dots. This movement didn't grow organically out of thin air. It was manufactured by the CIA.

It would appear that there may well have been a connection between FF and the CIA. There was a newspaper article from the early 80s (IIRC), which mentioned Forrest as ex-CIA (if there is such a thing).

However I would be very careful about generalizing too much. Youth naturally tends to be counterculture - it's part of growing up and rebelling against the established order. I grew up in Britain and although not cool or confident enough to really go against the grain, watched what was happening with interest. Musical groups like The Beatles, Rolling Stones and The Who began as counterculture but rapidly became mainstream because they "spoke" to a whole generation. I recently watched Paul McCartney play at Glastonbury - almost a 3-hour set at the age of 80(!); he's now so mainstream that he's become cool again! I very much doubt that those, at one time game-changing, groups had much to do with clandestine operations or were creations of the state. Same with all the progressive rock groups that interested me more: ELP, Yes, Argent, Genesis etc. They created their own subculture that "reinvented" folkloric tales and myths but, beyond the drugs and other excesses, probably attracted little interest among the security services. Beyond that, the obviously "manufactured" groups, such as The Monkees and later creations of Simon Cowell and others, seem to me much more about money than anything else, although in the process they do tend to manipulate cultural norms to a certain extent. That's not to say that there hasn't been manipulation by government organizations as well, when it suited them, but I suspect that division is sown much more by those who seek power, rather than those who already have it and who would fear disruption.

What you then go on to raise is a really interesting subject.

Forrest Fenn seems to be very interested in the "fame process". How to make one's self become famous. He even has a video about this which has absolutely fascinated me for several years now.
---
Think about the part in the video where he says "There's only one thing that keeps me right now from being the world's greatest painter, and that's talent. I've got everything else. I just don't have the talent."

What does he mean when he says "he has everything else"? What is "everything else"? Is that the knowledge of the "fame process" or a connection in the CIA or Hollywood? Or both?

As we all know well, Fenn obviously had a military background. He also seemed to be quite well known in socialite circles. How many art dealers have Jackie Kennedy stop by and spend the night?

I think there might be more to this story than we know.

I think it's perfectly possible that connections, money and motivation could easily create fame, and it might suit the CIA or others to place individuals in positions where they can gain information or influence. What I don't subscribe to is the idea that there is some hidden government agenda that requires the wholesale diversion of society for unknown ends. Governments are usually way too inept to be that long-sighted, organized, or clear-thinking, IMO. I got the impression that Fenn was indeed a maverick. He may have had - and utilized - connections in the CIA and elsewhere to further his aims, but I feel that he was more of a lone wolf. I believe he had embarked on one of his missions when he setup the chase and that it was very important to him, but I'd be surprised if it was "authorized."

Also, when I think about Fenn as the pied piper and the following that he amassed, it reminds me a little bit of the Grateful Dead. He created a counter culture - a following - a community. Did he do this single-handedly? At first glance it seems so, but, as we should know by now, the news is a completely controlled entity. There are many videos of reporters on local news channels saying the exact same thing verbatim, which tells us that all news is controlled by a common source:

https://www.brighteon.com/00000000-0...5-826806521001


Being that all news is controlled by a common source, there is a firewall that cherry picks what the news will report and what it will not report. Clearly, the news loved reporting on Forrest Fenn and his treasure hunt. Somehow he was able to pass the media firewall. But how?

Again I'd be a little careful here. Certainly Rupert Murdoch and his news empire, for example, has had a major impact on what and how things are reported (and has had a significant effect in deepening society's divisions, IMO), and other consolidations of news reporting have also occurred. Often, local reporting is based on syndicated output and so it's not surprising that events are reported in similar ways. It's perhaps less of a conspiracy and more an indication of centralized (and unfortunately, politicized) news gathering in the more financially constrained digital era. But there are still a number of independent outlets and there's still good, solid investigative reporting (supported by facts rather than conspiracies) if you seek it out. It might help to look beyond American networks occasionally.

Society is generally messy, and often bureaucratic: we seem to stumble along rather than move with purpose. Fenn didn't like bureaucracy as he felt he could do things himself more efficiently. I suspect that although he may have been a kind of "pied piper" as you state, it was to serve his own agenda. He believed in a "higher power," but I would hazard a guess that that higher power was less state-controlled than it was something else - something more fundamental.

[Sarah Seedling]

It would appear that there may well have been a connection between FF and the CIA. There was a newspaper article from the early 80s (IIRC), which mentioned Forrest as ex-CIA (if there is such a thing).

However I would be very careful about generalizing too much. Youth naturally tends to be "counter-culture" - it's part of growing up and rebelling against the established order. I grew up in Britain and although not cool or confident enough to really go against the grain, watched what was happening with interest. Musical groups like The Beatles, Rolling Stones and The Who began as counter-culture but rapidly became mainstream because they "spoke" to a whole generation. I recently watched Paul McCartney play at Glastonbury - almost a 3-hour set at the age of 80(!); he's now so mainstream that he's become cool again! I very much doubt that those, at one time game-changing, groups had much to do with clandestine operations or were creations of the state. Same with all the progressive rock groups that interested me more: ELP, Yes, Argent, Genesis etc. They created their own sub-culture that "reinvented" folkloric tales and myths but, beyond the drugs and other excesses, probably attracted little interest among the security services. Beyond that, the obviously "manufactured" groups, such as The Monkees and later creations of Simon Cowell and others, seem to me much more about money than anything else, although in the process they do tend to manipulate cultural norms to a certain extent. That's not to say that there hasn't been manipulation by government organizations as well, when it suited them, but I suspect that division is sown much more by those who seek power, rather than those who already have it and who would fear disruption.

What you then go on to raise is a really interesting subject.



I think it's perfectly possible that connections, money and motivation could easily create fame, and it might suit the CIA or others to place individuals in positions where they can gain information or influence. What I don't subscribe to is the idea that there is some hidden government agenda that requires the wholesale diversion of society for unknown ends. Governments are usually way too inept to be that long-sighted, organized, or clear-thinking, IMO. I got the impression that Fenn was indeed a maverick. He may have had - and utilized - connections in the CIA and elsewhere to further his aims, but I feel that he was more of a lone wolf. I believe he had embarked on one of his missions when he setup the chase and that it was very important to him, but I'd be surprised if it was "authorized."



Again I'd be a little careful here. Certainly Rupert Murdoch and his news empire, for example, has had a major impact on what and how things are reported (and has had a significant effect in deepening society's divisions, IMO), and other consolidations of news reporting have also occurred. Often, local reporting is based on syndicated output and so it's not surprising that events are reported in similar ways. It's perhaps less of a conspiracy and more an indication of centralized (and unfortunately, politicized) news gathering in the more financially constrained digital era. But there are still a number of independent outlets and there's still good, solid investigative reporting (supported by facts rather than conspiracies) if you seek it out. It might help to look beyond American networks occasionally.

Society is generally messy, and often bureaucratic: we seem to stumble along rather than move with purpose. Fenn didn't like bureaucracy as he felt he could do things himself more efficiently. I suspect that although he may have been a kind of "pied piper" as you state, it was to serve his own agenda. He believed in a "higher power," but I would hazard a guess that that higher power was less state-controlled than it was something else - something more fundamental.

Exactly, no government entity is going to fund finding a red neck from Texas with 12 kids, that just lost his job. If they want a person like that they would just go to the welfare or unemployment office.

[ravenhome777]

It would appear that there may well have been a connection between FF and the CIA. There was a newspaper article from the early 80s (IIRC), which mentioned Forrest as ex-CIA (if there is such a thing).

However I would be very careful about generalizing too much. Youth naturally tends to be counterculture - it's part of growing up and rebelling against the established order. I grew up in Britain and although not cool or confident enough to really go against the grain, watched what was happening with interest. Musical groups like The Beatles, Rolling Stones and The Who began as counterculture but rapidly became mainstream because they "spoke" to a whole generation. I recently watched Paul McCartney play at Glastonbury - almost a 3-hour set at the age of 80(!); he's now so mainstream that he's become cool again! I very much doubt that those, at one time game-changing, groups had much to do with clandestine operations or were creations of the state. Same with all the progressive rock groups that interested me more: ELP, Yes, Argent, Genesis etc. They created their own subculture that "reinvented" folkloric tales and myths but, beyond the drugs and other excesses, probably attracted little interest among the security services. Beyond that, the obviously "manufactured" groups, such as The Monkees and later creations of Simon Cowell and others, seem to me much more about money than anything else, although in the process they do tend to manipulate cultural norms to a certain extent. That's not to say that there hasn't been manipulation by government organizations as well, when it suited them, but I suspect that division is sown much more by those who seek power, rather than those who already have it and who would fear disruption.

What you then go on to raise is a really interesting subject.



I think it's perfectly possible that connections, money and motivation could easily create fame, and it might suit the CIA or others to place individuals in positions where they can gain information or influence. What I don't subscribe to is the idea that there is some hidden government agenda that requires the wholesale diversion of society for unknown ends. Governments are usually way too inept to be that long-sighted, organized, or clear-thinking, IMO. I got the impression that Fenn was indeed a maverick. He may have had - and utilized - connections in the CIA and elsewhere to further his aims, but I feel that he was more of a lone wolf. I believe he had embarked on one of his missions when he setup the chase and that it was very important to him, but I'd be surprised if it was "authorized."



Again I'd be a little careful here. Certainly Rupert Murdoch and his news empire, for example, has had a major impact on what and how things are reported (and has had a significant effect in deepening society's divisions, IMO), and other consolidations of news reporting have also occurred. Often, local reporting is based on syndicated output and so it's not surprising that events are reported in similar ways. It's perhaps less of a conspiracy and more an indication of centralized (and unfortunately, politicized) news gathering in the more financially constrained digital era. But there are still a number of independent outlets and there's still good, solid investigative reporting (supported by facts rather than conspiracies) if you seek it out. It might help to look beyond American networks occasionally.

Society is generally messy, and often bureaucratic: we seem to stumble along rather than move with purpose. Fenn didn't like bureaucracy as he felt he could do things himself more efficiently. I suspect that although he may have been a kind of "pied piper" as you state, it was to serve his own agenda. He believed in a "higher power," but I would hazard a guess that that higher power was less state-controlled than it was something else - something more fundamental.

Thanks for that thoughtful reply.

This line is quite thought provoking. Need to think on this a bit more:
That's not to say that there hasn't been manipulation by government organizations as well, when it suited them, but I suspect that division is sown much more by those who seek power, rather than those who already have it and who would fear disruption.

You raise an interesting point about FF. Was FF a lone wolf or was he given the OK by a higher level authority, or both? I always envisioned FF being a lone wolf, and I think that's probably the more likely answer, given Occam's Razor. However, it would be interesting to have insight into how things work in the more covert and shaded areas of the CIA. I don't have insight into these areas. I don't really have an idea of how large they are. What they are investigating. What they spend their time doing. I know they are very well funded. I remember a couple years ago that Trillions of dollars were missing from the budget and it has never been accounted for. So they have a big operation. What they do with that missing money would be interesting to know.

But, would they care about FF? Probably not. I do wonder what the gatekeeper is like for getting on the news. We know most news articles, at least in the US, are generated by the Associated Press. How are news articles that are not from the Associated Press handled? At some point, I would imagine, FFs treasure story was christened by the AP. It would be easy enough to find out. News stories are usually labelled as AP derived. Looking back at the origin of the first stories to hit the airwaves, were they from the AP? What is the first known FF story that existed? Is this from the AP? That might tell us something.

[ravenhome777]

Exactly, no government entity is going to fund finding a red neck from Texas with 12 kids, that just lost his job. If they want a person like that they would just go to the welfare or unemployment office.

That's a good point. And it raises an interesting question in my mind. Does the above description describe who FF was? Or does the above description describe who FF wanted us to "think" he was?

I think FF certainly was a nobody from Texas at some point in his life. Probably for most of his life actually. However, as we have all probably experienced in our day-to-day lives, when we are 20 years old, we're treated as nobody dumb a** kids. When we are 40 years old, and have contributed to society in a meaningful way, we are treated a bit differently. We're treated as respected adults, for the most part. FF started off as a nobody, but he served in Vietnam as an airplane pilot. Received medals of honor. Then he became a leading authority in the art world. He created a well-respected, revenue-generating art gallery. He rubbed noses with famous people and progressed into the circles of the elite. So, he might still see himself as a 14 year old fly fisherman in Yellowstone trying to make a living supporting his family on trout he pulled out of the river, but how does the world see him? They no longer see him as a 14 year old dishwasher. They see him as a distinguished and respectable member of society.

So, with all that said, let's look back at what FF told us in the video. PR reps can pick people out of the crowd and make them famous. Well, maybe FF knew the socialite circle well enough. He knew the people who "pick the people". All FF would need to do is take one of these "pickers" out to dinner, and run the idea by them to open the AP gates and let him into the national news cycle. That's all. He was a charming, well-respected fellow.

He would say to the pickers - hey, do me a favor. Let me into the AP news cycle. It's just a little story about a treasure hunt. Perfectly harmless. It will fall into the category of a "human interest" story. I know you're running a little short on those nowadays. People will eat up. How about it?

Sure! That acutally sounds like a really cool story. Readers will eat it up.

From there, it exploded into a nation-wide phenomenon. Maybe the AP picker folks didn't realize how large this bomb would be. Who knows? Maybe they regretted allowing him into the news circle. But once they let him in, there was no taking it back.

I have no idea of course. Just speculating here.

[Rose Livingstone]

Art is an easy way to move vast sums of money.
The bigger the counterculture using drugs, the more customers the CIA has to sell to.
I very much doubt an Entire government organization could keep Anything secret- especially not the hidden door to this Truman show.

[voxpops]

I very much doubt an Entire government organization could keep Anything secret- especially not the hidden door to this Truman show.

Yes, and when you think about it, there hasn't been one chink of light shone on the real purpose or workings of the chase. If anyone else was privy to key information (particularly in government) I suspect there would have been a meaningful leak by now. Fenn was a master of his craft - and he was able to keep his secret where, what, when, why and how. And that suggests to me that his mission was an important one (at least in his eyes). You don't go to all that trouble - and secrecy - unless there's something at stake that's critical to keep under wraps, until the time is right.

[Alsetenash]

See attachment.......top left "FENN..............ex-CIA"

[Tim (ZosoRocks)]

Art is an easy way to move vast sums of money.
The bigger the counterculture using drugs, the more customers the CIA has to sell to.
I very much doubt an Entire government organization could keep Anything secret- especially not the hidden door to this Truman show.

If one knows where to look, then the escape can be done without notice.

Lol

[Sarah Seedling]

Yes, and when you think about it, there hasn't been one chink of light shone on the real purpose or workings of the chase. If anyone else was privy to key information (particularly in government) I suspect there would have been a meaningful leak by now. Fenn was a master of his craft - and he was able to keep his secret where, what, when, why and how. And that suggests to me that his mission was an important one (at least in his eyes). You don't go to all that trouble - and secrecy - unless there's something at stake that's critical to keep under wraps, until the time is right.

Right, noone knows what Fenn was up to and now it looks like noone is ever going to know

[trueyeti]

Yes, and when you think about it, there hasn't been one chink of light shone on the real purpose or workings of the chase. If anyone else was privy to key information (particularly in government) I suspect there would have been a meaningful leak by now. Fenn was a master of his craft - and he was able to keep his secret where, what, when, why and how. And that suggests to me that his mission was an important one (at least in his eyes). You don't go to all that trouble - and secrecy - unless there's something at stake that's critical to keep under wraps, until the time is right.

Hey VP,
IMO this mirrors the underpinnings of Q conspiracy theories. Its not that way IMO.

If you ever played pirate treasure when you were a child, then you would have a better bead on the true foundational/archetypal motifs prevalent in the chase..... as opposed to Q-Anon Crapper Cappers. Cheers.

PS. Yeah.... the government. Hahahaha. That one is simple too.... its a conspiracy called "capitalism." It goes all the way back to feudalism and the first city states in Mesopotamia.... the granaries and the invention of Arabic Numbers.... the beginnings of the stock market. Yeah yeah yeah throw in the Jesus coming in the clouds and Armageddon and there you have Q-Anon crazies..... Cheers again.

[ravenhome777]

Yes, and when you think about it, there hasn't been one chink of light shone on the real purpose or workings of the chase. If anyone else was privy to key information (particularly in government) I suspect there would have been a meaningful leak by now. Fenn was a master of his craft - and he was able to keep his secret where, what, when, why and how. And that suggests to me that his mission was an important one (at least in his eyes). You don't go to all that trouble - and secrecy - unless there's something at stake that's critical to keep under wraps, until the time is right.

Yes, he was very good at keeping secrets. That is a skill that not too many people have. I have tried to keep secrets before, and I cannot. I believe it's a skill that needs to be taught, practiced and learned. Where did he acquire those skills?

[ravenhome777]

See attachment.......top left "FENN..............ex-CIA"

Wow. So I guess that answers that question. Now we know where FF learned how to keep a secret. He probably learned spy craft as well.

[ravenhome777]

If you ever played pirate treasure when you were a child, then you would have a better bead on the true foundational/archetypal motifs prevalent in the chase.....

Don't think I ever played pirate treasure as a kid. How does that work? What's with the true foundational/archetypal motifs? Not following that one. Can you elaborate?

[ravenhome777]

Passed down in the family. You could say 'in the genes'.

Interesting. Maybe other family members of the Fenn clan were in the CIA?