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  • Fenn's slip-ups?

    I don't believe he made any slip-ups that significantly helped anyone solve the poem. He was quite a yarn-teller . . . and so, it appears, was Jack. If the chest isn't still in its hidey spot, then the chest appears to be in some kind of legal limbo right now, and neither Jack nor any of the folks suing regarding the chest will get to keep it. All part of my opinion.

  • #2
    I remember watching some interview with FF. The interviewees seemed like college students making a documentary for extra credit or something. They were slapping their hands together in front of FF's face and stuff. But, in the video, those d*mb a** college students (or whoever they were) told FF to say certain things to make the documentary more interesting. One of the things they told him to say is there was something that I said that I didn't want to, or something like that. They say Forrest, can you say "bla bla bla" and FF does it. Just for a clip to spice things up, and F*CK with searchers.

    That video makes me angry because those d*mb a** college students just rehashed every single question that FF had already answered, they had zero original thought, and they wasted FF's time. FF even says, I don't think I'm giving you much.

    If I had an opportunity of an HOUR to spend with FF, I would have taken the time to ask some thought provoking questions. What an opportunity they squandered.

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    • #3
      Originally posted by Old Pilot View Post
      I don't believe he made any slip-ups that significantly helped anyone solve the poem. He was quite a yarn-teller . . . and so, it appears, was Jack. If the chest isn't still in its hidey spot, then the chest appears to be in some kind of legal limbo right now, and neither Jack nor any of the folks suing regarding the chest will get to keep it. All part of my opinion.
      That sounds very reasonable to me as well.
      That is, the POEM is supposed to lead the astute searcher to the exact spot, in theory. Yet the poem is so vague that it could apply to a million places out West. Warm waters could be just about anywhere where there is water, whether it's a thermal pool, a warm spring, a transition where streams meet, an elevation change, etc. HOB could be brown trout, a brownish bear (grizzly or cinnamon, or light black), an historical figure, a name of a place, brown dirt, etc. The permutations, that is the mathematical 'space' (or range of combinations) with just those two clues alone, is enormous. Then multiply that extraordinarily high number with further vague clues that could range with many more possibilities. Suddenly we are talking millions, maybe billions or more, of potential hidden spots.
      So as I see it, my own solve was merely towards my own realm of thinking, you know personal biases combined with experience of places that I'm familiar with. But every other searcher applied their own, unique individual thought processes in a similar manner.
      So basically, anywhere out West, you could simply drive down the highways and off roads, look out the window and see myriads of places that might "fit" the clues! A person thinking he or she is "sure" of the spot, could spent twenty years searching just one area, like a special valley, mountain side, etc. Another searcher could do the same thing the next valley over, and so forth.
      The overall point here is that it is next to impossible for ANYONE to decipher that poem accurately and find the supposed treasure.
      And I suspect, my opinion only, Forrest knew this too. And thus to construe a plausible ending, somebody smarter and shrewder has to find that TC. So along comes a proxy (still my opinion only to explore the range of possibilities), that person has to outsmart ALL the other searchers. So what better way than to say, "Hey, I couldn't figure out the poem either, but I knew of something Forrest said, that NOBODY else noticed, that lead me to the exact area".
      Last edited by MZ007; 05-28-2022, 09:31 AM.

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      • #4
        Originally posted by MZ007 View Post

        That sounds very reasonable to me as well.
        That is, the POEM is supposed to lead the astute searcher to the exact spot, in theory. Yet the poem is so vague that it could apply to a million places out West. Warm waters could be just about anywhere where there is water, whether it's a thermal pool, a warm spring, a transition where streams meet, an elevation change, etc. HOB could be brown trout, a brownish bear (grizzly or cinnamon, or light black), an historical figure, a name of a place, brown dirt, etc. The permutations, that is the mathematical 'space' (or range of combinations) with just two clues alone, is enormous. Then multiply that extraordinarily high number with further vague clues that could range with many more possibilities. Suddenly we are talking millions, maybe billions or more, of potential hidden spots.
        So as I see it, my own solve was merely towards my own realm of thinking, you know personal biases combined with experience of place. But every other searcher applied their own, unique individual thought processes in a similar manner.
        So basically, anywhere out West, you could simply drive down the highways and off roads, look out the window and see myriads of places that might "fit" the clues! A person thinking he or she is "sure" of the spot, could spent twenty years searching just one area, like a special valley, mountain side, etc. Another searcher could do the same thing the next valley over, and so forth.
        The overall point here is that it is next to impossible for ANYONE to decipher that poem accurately and find the supposed treasure.
        And I suspect, my opinion only, Forrest knew this too. And thus to construe a plausible ending, somebody smarter and shrewder has to find that TC. So along comes a proxy (still my opinion only to explore the range of possibilities), that person has to outsmart ALL the other searchers. So what better way than to say, "Hey, I couldn't figure out the poem either, but I knew of something Forrest said, that NOBODY else noticed, that lead me to the exact area".
        Or there is someone who did solve the poem, that person must be some type of genius instead of some roughneck from Texas and all we’re seeing now is a big smoke screen. Nothing and noone is as it seams

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by ravenhome777 View Post
          I remember watching some interview with FF. The interviewees seemed like college students making a documentary for extra credit or something. They were slapping their hands together in front of FF's face and stuff. But, in the video, those d*mb a** college students (or whoever they were) told FF to say certain things to make the documentary more interesting. One of the things they told him to say is there was something that I said that I didn't want to, or something like that. They say Forrest, can you say "bla bla bla" and FF does it. Just for a clip to spice things up, and F*CK with searchers.

          That video makes me angry because those d*mb a** college students just rehashed every single question that FF had already answered, they had zero original thought, and they wasted FF's time. FF even says, I don't think I'm giving you much.

          If I had an opportunity of an HOUR to spend with FF, I would have taken the time to ask some thought provoking questions. What an opportunity they squandered.
          Yeah, quite rude, disrespectful and annoying by clueless people as you say.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Sarah Seedling View Post

            Or there is someone who did solve the poem, that person must be some type of genius instead of some roughneck from Texas and all we’re seeing now is a big smoke screen. Nothing and noone is as it seams
            "Roughneck from Texas". Well, one thing I learned over time is not underestimate the wisdom and intelligence of anyone! Of course, I know your point and think that way myself at times. But then I run into some very bright individuals whom you would think from initial observation don't know anything- ie 'classism' bias, which is basically making ill-informed assumptions about people based merely on the appearance of their professional, economic or social class. And just as well, there are individuals in high places you'd think were extremely bright, yet get out of their area of expertise, and suddenly they aren't so bright when it comes to practical matters. (to put it politely)
            Thus, the BOTG crowd here, applying raw insight into how the world works, is likely far more sophisticated in treasure seeking than say a bunch of booksmart Harvard elites. With regard to practical, down-to-earth wisdom, don't underestimate yourself, or anyone else, and don't overestimate those whom we think must be "geniuses". Because they're not.
            Last edited by MZ007; 05-28-2022, 09:55 AM.

            Comment


            • #7
              Hi MZ007. You make some very good points about the ambiguity of the poem. Surely this is why there are probably thousands of people who are certain they have a perfect fit for the poem that must be right. Layer on top of that the vast array of stories Fenn wrote, from which searchers can cherry-pick to "confirm" their solutions, and voila!, we have thousands of searchers who are convinced they had the right solution. What a mess.

              But my devil's advocate point of view is that if a searcher were to do what the author told us to do - use the book to help solve the clues in the poem, then it is possible to correctly solve that seemingly ambiguous set of words. That is, as long as a searcher can avoid cherry-picking and confirmation bias, and truly use the book, the whole book, to guide their solution. Otherwise it is as you said, an impossible task; almost a lottery, if you will. And such a process would probably end up in the narrative like the one we have today.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by MZ007 View Post

                "Roughneck from Texas". Well, one thing I learned over time is not underestimate the wisdom and intelligence of anyone! Of course, I know your point and think that way myself at times. But then I run into some very bright individuals whom you would think from initial observation don't know anything- ie 'classism' bias, which is basically making ill-informed assumptions about people based merely on the appearance of their professional, economic or social class. And just as well, there are individuals in high places you'd think were extremely bright, yet get out of their area of expertise, and suddenly they aren't so bright when it comes to practical matters. (to put it politely)
                Thus, the BOTG crowd here, applying raw insight into how the world works, is likely far more sophisticated in treasure seeking than say a bunch of booksmart Harvard elites. With regard to practical, down-to-earth wisdom, don't underestimate yourself, or anyone else, and don't overestimate those whom we think must be "geniuses". Because they're not.
                Everyone has there area of expertise, sum are good at finding there way in the dark without a compass or without a mere beam to light the way. Another is exceptional at getting lost in broad sunlight with a compass and a gps. All genius in there own little environment.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Old Pilot
                  This makes sense. Fenn said a lot of ridiculous-sounding stuff that somebody probably thinks would help solve the poem.
                  The question is always, is that ridiculous-sounding stuff being used in the right context? One of my favorite examples is the olive jar the kid waved in his face in FIRST GRADE. Some might think that the . a place within the nine clues has the word "Olive" in it. Then they might take another odd reference from a different story, pair it to the place they found that has Olive in it, and call this corroboration.

                  Yet they would ignore all of the other glaring hints in that chapter: John Charles, Billy Joe Ray, the irony, and Ora Mae, to name a few. Isn't it much more likely that those things would be much more likely to create the necessary context to the olive reference than from the middle of a different chapter or some Scrapbook that came out 5 years later? And perhaps Fenn wanted us to think a little harder than just to pull the word "olives" out of the story. He went on to the describe the jar in detail: "It was one of those long thin jars with a green lid and the olives looked like they were placed in there one at a time." It's only logical to assume that he wanted us to think about what he was describing rather than just pull a word or two here and there from his stories.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Old Pilot

                    What do you think Fenn was trying to tell us in that detailed story about the olives in their jar?
                    The type of olives that he was describing.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      MZ, people of intellect are everywhere. You don't have to come from a certain group with intellectual background. Smart people, intellectual people and gifted people come from all walks life. Just because someone goes to college does not make them smart at everything. IMO

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by ravenhome777 View Post
                        I remember watching some interview with FF. The interviewees seemed like college students making a documentary for extra credit or something. They were slapping their hands together in front of FF's face and stuff. But, in the video, those d*mb a** college students (or whoever they were) told FF to say certain things to make the documentary more interesting. One of the things they told him to say is there was something that I said that I didn't want to, or something like that. They say Forrest, can you say "bla bla bla" and FF does it. Just for a clip to spice things up, and F*CK with searchers.

                        That video makes me angry because those d*mb a** college students just rehashed every single question that FF had already answered, they had zero original thought, and they wasted FF's time. FF even says, I don't think I'm giving you much.

                        If I had an opportunity of an HOUR to spend with FF, I would have taken the time to ask some thought provoking questions. What an opportunity they squandered.
                        It wasn't college students, they were New Mexico tourism folks. F knew they were going to take all his stuff to make something juicy to draw more people to the state. Nothingvwas sinister about it. Forrest could handle himself even in the later years and didn't need people to protect him or feel sorry for him.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Old Pilot

                          Possibly a "pimiento" hint: Every jarred olive I've seen is green; black ones are in cans. By the way, "pimiento" isn't much of a hint at all -- but Fenn liked to tease us with "pi" words, in my oPInion.
                          Not what I had in mind. My wife knew it cold without any prompting.

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Spoon View Post

                            Not what I had in mind. My wife knew it cold without any prompting.
                            I always thought this olive jar he described was the small Greek amphora style e.g. for kalamata olives. This would foreshadow Forrest's fate as a treasure hunter (he recovered several amphorae from the sea). It also occurs to me that the Greek is connected to Alpha/Omega (Greek letters).

                            There seems to be another connection having to do with why a bully would torment someone with a greek olive jar. I don't think there is another reasonable explanation but that it was to insult Forrest's masculinity, suggesting he was a a sissy boy (i.e. gay). And the connection is to Frosty, whose "polarity" Forrest questions later in the book. Frosty = cold ("your effort will be worth the cold"). Frosty is also called "The Ruler" because he took more than the inch the boss gave him. Ignoring that additional sexual innuendo, I focus on the fact a ruler that contains inches is used to measure distances, and "Nine Mile" is a measure of distance.

                            Was Forrest THIS abstract and devious??? I have to say yes, it simply doesn't make any sense why he would have these two otherwise pointless and inappropriate episodes in his memoir. Especially the Frosty (Ruler) gay stuff which was added to the perfectly-good version of the story he had written previously.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Spoon View Post

                              The question is always, is that ridiculous-sounding stuff being used in the right context? One of my favorite examples is the olive jar the kid waved in his face in FIRST GRADE. Some might think that the . a place within the nine clues has the word "Olive" in it. Then they might take another odd reference from a different story, pair it to the place they found that has Olive in it, and call this corroboration.

                              Yet they would ignore all of the other glaring hints in that chapter: John Charles, Billy Joe Ray, the irony, and Ora Mae, to name a few. Isn't it much more likely that those things would be much more likely to create the necessary context to the olive reference than from the middle of a different chapter or some Scrapbook that came out 5 years later? And perhaps Fenn wanted us to think a little harder than just to pull the word "olives" out of the story. He went on to the describe the jar in detail: "It was one of those long thin jars with a green lid and the olives looked like they were placed in there one at a time." It's only logical to assume that he wanted us to think about what he was describing rather than just pull a word or two here and there from his stories.
                              The irony is apparently lost on you. Of course a cowboy wouldn't get off his horse to punch a little kid for saying Hi. Forrest is hinting that we should pay attention. To what? Not making an alligator mad? Ummm .... no. The second part, something something or another.

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