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  • Indulgence IV - Clue #1 - BIWWWH

    This post does not support YNP. If you are in that camp, you can stop reading now, because YNP is not discussed at all.
    ------------------------------------------

    May 25, 1787
    On this day in 1787, the Constitutional Convention opened in Philadelphia, where 55 state delegates, initially charged with amending the Articles of Confederation, later drafted the Constitution of the United States.
    ++ A new freedom is born.

    May 25, 2020 - two years ago today, I sent Forrest my pictures of the final location.
    ++ A newer freedom began

    May 25, 2022
    ++ A even newer freedom begins

    ------------------------------------------
    https://youtu.be/4ylsNHXJljk
    ------------------------------------------

    =====================
    For all of you wondering where the final location is - well, you will have to continue to wonder - or solve the Poem. But, the picture I have attached to this thread/post - will allow you too to see the found location, as I have.

    IMO - it was with this picture, that caused Forrest to make the statement - "the treasure was found". Yes. I followed all nine clues precisely, umbilical, with confidence, had no bias except for Forrest's. I did not stumble around looking for the path or blaze, I knew what to look for BEFORE I went.

    Please remember - NO ONE has ever debunked, destroyed or ripped apart any of these facts, and thus, even after 6800+ views - no justifiable and verifiable evidence has been presented to me - to dismiss them, but instead, I have received numerous verbal objections, even then, nothing factual had ever been presented - only opinions and unrelated wishful thinking/projection.

    Therefore, the solution still stands as very compelling, if not completely accurate in all the logically based facts it contains.

    You, as a reader of "this wall of information" will probably ask:
    "Why do I continuously leave certain answers blank and use "XXXXX" instead?"
    - because the answers to these details - when figured out, can be deciphered to disclose the locations for the clues they are connected to. Earn them. I had.
    - Although I have already provided many details, the answers I have posted, have still stumped everyone who have ever tried to break them apart.

    Forrest was truly a genius and architect in his construction of this Poem.
    ++ In Numerology - the number "22" is also a number that reflects "The Master Builder"

    "....Master Number 22 is also called “Master Builder” or the “Master Architect”. It holds so much power that it can turn big dreams into reality if worked upon it very sincerely."
    https://www.ganeshaspeaks.com/numero...ry%20sincerely.

    Here is another website with more details:
    https://feliciabender.com/master-number-twenty-two/

    ++ In Numerology - the number "44" is also a number that reflects "The Master Healer"
    "Master Number 44 is the number of “Manifestation”, its main energy is materializing the ideas of Master Number 22 and the teachings of Master Number 33. Like Master Number 11, it is also highly intuitive and visionary. Note that despite its association with the material world and manifestation, that it is not strictly limited to material wealth. The physical world can mean the physical body. People who are born with this number may be destined to become healers, such as doctors, nurses, and paramedics."
    https://truenumerology.com/master-number-44/

    Here is another website with more details:
    https://secretlifenumbers.com/master...e-rare-healer/

    I could continue with Numerology 101 - but the following website gives a great rundown on Master numbers "11", "22" and "33" - with very easily understood details.
    ++ One thing you will notice in this esoteric understanding, will be the many times an "Omega" symbol has been pictured in the website.
    https://www.worldnumerology.com/nume...aster-numbers/

    ==================
    "I am not religious, but probably the most spiritual person around." - f

    tarryscant.com ID #9054
    From Moby Dickens Bookshop interview 11/02/2013
    https://youtu.be/8RzrIu3hMec

    ==================
    And so.....I now present a summary of the clues and details that I have concluded with. This is a consolidation of many other threads I had posted on in the past.

    To ensure all of you - I am not "Jack/Bill", nor am I anyone you would ever know. I am not part of the Fenn family, nor have I ever met and introduced myself to Forrest or his family. I also have never interacted with any other searcher face to face, except of my own (now defunct) team and the painter/searcher who had painted my house.

    I am a nobody who tried to match wits with Forrest's mind - like everyone else, to try and tap into his thinking -- but instead, I found his most deepest secret. I also had given him many details about himself, his life, his thoughts - that even he was surprised to hear.

    "I was surprised the finder knew so much about me." - f (paraphrased)

    Like many in the Chase, I too am from "back East" (like thousands upon thousands of others) and can also be considered "shy" - one variation is "because I chose not to introduce myself" to Forrest. Thousands of us fall into this context...not just those who claim they are solitary. Those with that mentality have limited their thinking to what they want to believe - by just using their personal bias - to THINK THEY WILL always be right. Well, you are not. Get over your ego. Own it.

    But enough with the small talk, huh?....you came to this thread to read and see answers....Let us venture down that rabbit hole.....and resurface with a new enlightenment.
    **************************

    9 clues (actually 11 clues - but you will see the logic and reason why they were included / x9 plus x2 addl - 8b and 9b)
    = "44" answers = a complete solution
    = 9 locations
    = 9 adventures
    = 9 references to notoriety
    = 9 reasons for the clues

    The 10th clue = discovered after all clues are defined
    =============

    Clue # 1 - BIWWWH -- [Begin it where warm waters halt]
    - location = Cameron, MT / West Fork Cabin Camp
    - adventure = in the Rocky Mtns
    - ref to notoriety = William Marvin Fenn, Sr
    - reason for this clue = His Father was the person who took Forrest's family into the Rocky Mountains to this location. FYI - this place was owned by his Grandparents - The Simpsons.
    = The Simpsons owned this tourist camping and lodging rest area for travellers. It contains RV parking, a campground and about 10 "One-Room cabins" (ref TTotC PG 46 and picture comparisons). Each cabin contains a kitchenette, a water basin/shower/sink - where warm waters halt !
    = I had stayed at this location three times - 2015, 2017, and 2018
    = Forrest used bathroom references, tubs, showers, mirrors and pictures of these things and people at this place in TTotC and in Scrapbooks - to give us all hints.
    ++ One can "dip their toe(s) into a nice, 'warm water' bath in order to make sure the 'basin'/'Olga's tub' is 'comfortable.'
    ++ Forrest took pictures of inside his shower - to show a slight need for paredolia / imagination
    ++ There is a doodle that has circulated with Forrest looking at a younger Self in the mirror.
    = Forrest stayed here with his family on their Summer trips

    = Mr. Carl and Mrs. Arie Simpson (Grandparents) and young children are photographed in front of the main office (ref. TTotC PG 44)
    = Donnie and Forrest are photographed sitting on the office porch (ref. TTotC PG 68)
    = Forrest, his Dad, and his realtor friend are photographed standing in front of the office (this picture is from a Scrapbook - ref. Dal's old website (photo attached). In addition, this photo was also used in Dal's no longer available Vimeo video - "Forrest Photo Gallery" and appeared at the 11:30 timestamp - while Forrest is speaking that his mother "died 30 ft from that spot". You will also notice the inclusion of two additional rooftop photos. One is cropped from the "realtor friends" photo and the other is cropped from a recent photo I took.
    = Forrest's Father had managed this location in the 1950s/1960s
    = inside the main office is a tackle shop - In which Forrest managed when he was a teen / "trusted" by his Grandparents/"The Management" to do so
    = Forrest was a fishing guide - for the tourist fishermen staying here.
    = Forrest stated multiple times it was the place his Mother had died (I counted 3 times) - which would make this location a very special place to Forrest. All this while being owned by his Grandparents. How special do you think it was to Forrest if it was a location that holds all his special memories?
    ++ "I was going to make it work no matter what." - f
    ++ "The spot where I hid the treasure was in my mind from the time I first started thinking about the chase. It is special to me and there was never another consideration. I was going to make it work no matter what. In my reverie I often find myself stealing away to that place and I will always consider it to be mine.” (MW Questions with Forrest 7/5/2014)
    = Forrest had probably purchased this place [already] to keep it in his family. This has a high probability to be factual. // This nicely fits with land ownership/title:
    = "...and I will always consider it to be mine." - f
    - you would also think this way, if you had bought the location, because you now own it.
    = this was his "comfortable" home away from his TX home

    .....do you need more details?.....

    Really?

    Decisions, decisions, huh?

    SMH - oh wait...is that "Jack/Bill" calling you? If so, then run along now, there is nothing here of you.

    ....continued.....
    Attached Files
    Last edited by Tim (ZosoRocks); 06-08-2022, 06:57 PM. Reason: System error change - "#1" became "Home" - changed to "# 1"

  • #2

    Clue # 2 - PIBTHOB - [Put in below the home of Brown]
    - location = Philipsburg, Montana - John Brown lived in this city
    - adventure = in the business world
    - ref to notoriety = John Francis Dean "Sandbar" Brown
    + John Brown became a Montanan fur trapper and trader.
    + "In 1873 Andrew Jackson Davis hired Brown to locate mines in the early days of Butte, and his success in locating the Lexington and other substantial mines contributed to the early success of both the mining camp and Davis’ personal fortune."
    http://fortbenton.blogspot.com/2014/...brown.html?m=1
    + "He owned and edited the Philipsburg Mail newspaper, and for the next forty years, he managed and developed many placer and quartz mines in the area."
    http://fortbenton.blogspot.com/2014/...brown.html?m=1
    + "100 of placer nuggets are in the chest" - f
    - reason for this clue = Forrest's first job was a paperboy delivering the Philipsburg Mail. John Brown owned the publication. There is a very high probability Forrest knew John Brown.

    Clue # 3 - NPFTM - [no place for the meek]
    - location = XXXXX
    - adventure = in a child's playground
    - ref to notoriety = XXXXX
    - reason for this clue = XXXXX

    Clue #4- TEIEDN - [The end is ever drawing near]
    - location = XXXXX
    - adventure = in fishing
    - ref to notoriety = XXXXX
    - reason for this clue = XXXXX

    Clue # 5- TBNP - [There'll be no paddle]
    - location = XXXXX
    - adventure = in exploring
    - ref to notoriety = Lewis Meriwether and William Clark
    - reason for this clue = two individuals who introduced Forrest to exploring the wilderness
    ++ "bull boat" - a small 'boat' that was made by ancient Native Americans to be used on shallow rivers for navigating and fishing. These were normally flat bottom boats that sat on top of the water. They also "did not require the use of paddles" or oars, but instead, the individual would use their hands to propel them in a forward motion..
    ++ These were also used by fur traders to navigate small rivers and streams on their journey - namely on the Missouri River in the early 1800s. During this usage, poles were used ("no paddle") to propel the boat and trapper.
    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bull_boat

    Clue # 6 - UYC - [up your creek]
    - location = XXXXX
    - adventure = in Nature conservation
    - ref to notoriety = XXXXX
    - reason for this clue = XXXXX

    Clue #7- IYBWAFTB - [If you've been wise and found the blaze]
    - location = XXXXX
    - adventure = in Native American history
    - ref to notoriety = XXXXX
    - reason for this clue = XXXXX

    Clue #8(a) - LQD - [look quickly down]
    - location = XXXXX
    - adventure = in Art
    - ref to notoriety = Christian Dior & Andre Kohn
    - reason for this clue = Peggy's lure to fashion...and....
    = Christian Dior was an artist and then became a fashion designer. In 1947 he brought his newest designs, labeled as "The New Look" of fashion - to the world. This endeavor, catapulted him into the limelight and began a world-renowned success we all are familiar with and know. Whereas, Andre Kohn, a Russian born impressionist artist, was an artist who incorporated Christian Dior's fashion into his paintings, which then, also brought him fame, within the Art world. Many of the women painted - are "looking down".while walking, sitting, or even holding their hat
    + here are many extraordinary examples of his artwork, in addition, the link also contains a brief history and origin of the man:
    https://www.tuttartpitturasculturapo...-kohn.html?m=1

    As you can see, the elegance and absolute perfection in his art had a direct reflection upon not only the Art world, but also with Forrest and the industry he entered. Kohn was not only another Russian artist whom Forrest admired, but his genius of the color palette blew Forrest away so intensely, he included him within this Poem's legacy of important people.
    - and for people who are really paying attention, if you had visited the Denver Museum of Art and perused the scheduled events that they planned to host in 2018, you would have noticed that they had planned a Christian Dior exhibit, featuring many works by Christian Dior and Andre Kohn in the exhibition - this exhibit began in November 2018 and then ran through March 2019.
    + do you remember when Forrest said he would leave his vehicle in the parking lot of the museum? That was his hint to us all, to look at what was happening inside the museum...NOT what was happening on the outside.
    - https://www.bizjournals.com/denver/n...christian.html

    - When a person is at the clue's specific location - "XXXXX" - and when they turn their head - they will be "looking down" at the "hidey spot" - approximately 12 to 20 feet away, in which you can then travel to your next targetted destination.

    Clue #8(b) - YQTC - [you quest to cease]
    - location = XXXXX
    - adventure = in Art
    - ref to notoriety = XXXXX
    - reason for this clue = XXXXX

    Clue #9(a) - BTS - [But tarry scant]
    - location = XXXXX
    - adventure = in Imagination & Storytelling
    - ref to notoriety = Salvador Dali
    - reason for this clue = Surrealism and it being a "thinking man's artform" (as is "The Poem")
    ++ "tarry" - archaic use was "dally" = "Dali" = Salvador Dali
    = Forrest's association to the Art world and Impressionistic works of Art is clearly a direct connection.
    = Salvador Dali was "The Grandfather of Surrealism" in many facets. Surrealism requires imagination to understand it.
    = Every picture tells a story.
    https://youtu.be/T9GapvypdEo

    Clue #9(b) - WMG - [with marvel gaze]
    - location = XXXXX
    - adventure = in Imagination & Storytelling
    - ref to notoriety = XXXXX
    - reason for this clue = XXXXX

    ===============

    Yes - I have now supplied and published facts and details for approximately 6 different clues. Acceptance is not that hard, considering many have done so with just using a belief system of hearsay and the "Jack/Bill" created narrative - with not one single clue presented. Hmmmm - sounds like "blind faith".

    What limits are in place for you by doing the same with these facts? None. Your Free Will is in charge.
    - You do realize, "Jack/Bill" will never post his so-called general solve, because he has none to post?

    - Oh, that is right - "Jack/Bill" doesn't have the chest either - "it is in a vault in Santa Fe." - "Jack/Bill's" own words.

    As I have always stated, I highly encourage anyone to try and debunk these facts. There is no need for "data points" (?), no need for triangulation, no need for Math, no need for the wheel, nor a need to use the many ideas that have surfaced and promoted....those all failed too, huh?

    Forrest told us in summary to - "read my book and then read the Poem, and then go back and reread the book SLOWLY, and then try to match up the stories to the Poem."
    ++ in other words - "read about my life, the answers are in the Poem."
    ++ Which, as you can see - shows the book and the Poem to be DIRECT CONNECTIONS TO FORREST'S LIFE.
    ++ All you really need to say is...."Why didn't I think of that?"

    It was indeed that simple, especially when he told us what to do.

    "It's not impossible, but extremely difficult." - f.
    -- this statement clearly states it is also solvable!

    If you managed to read this far, pat yourself on your back for "reading another wall of information." LOLOLOL

    "It is not who you are, it is who they think you are." - f

    "Nothing is as it seems." - f

    =========================

    You do not know who I am.....but do you know who you are?

    https://youtu.be/-PmmMG-6mwo
    https://youtu.be/OUZeDOaheUE
    https://youtu.be/4Kxum8P-rzI
    https://youtu.be/g_CIdMmyrds

    How honest can you be with yourself and others?

    Thanks for reading my post/thread.

    P.S. How big is a post-it note? This big!!
    https://www.post-it.com/3M/en_US/pos...4529207&rt=rud

    Be sage.
    Tim
    Attached Files
    Last edited by Tim (ZosoRocks); 05-25-2022, 11:48 AM.

    Comment


    • #3
      I agree with you that it is not in YNP and that ONLY 1 person solved the poem to the precise spot. The solve is much more simple than anyone would expect but Forrest buried it with his emergent ending. If I told you the solve you would reject it out of hand.
      Last edited by shyorphan; 05-25-2022, 12:08 PM.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Tim (ZosoRocks) View Post
        Clue # 2 - PIBTHOB - [Put in below the home of Brown]
        - location = Philipsburg, Montana - John Brown lived in this city
        - adventure = in the business world
        - ref to notoriety = John Francis Dean "Sandbar" Brown
        + John Brown became a Montanan fur trapper and trader.
        + "In 1873 Andrew Jackson Davis hired Brown to locate mines in the early days of Butte, and his success in locating the Lexington and other substantial mines contributed to the early success of both the mining camp and Davis’ personal fortune."
        http://fortbenton.blogspot.com/2014/...brown.html?m=1
        + "He owned and edited the Philipsburg Mail newspaper, and for the next forty years, he managed and developed many placer and quartz mines in the area."
        http://fortbenton.blogspot.com/2014/...brown.html?m=1
        + "100 of placer nuggets are in the chest" - f
        - reason for this clue = Forrest's first job was a paperboy delivering the Philipsburg Mail. John Brown owned the publication. There is a very high probability Forrest knew John Brown.

        Clue # 3 - NPFTM - [no place for the meek]
        - location = XXXXX
        - adventure = in a child's playground
        - ref to notoriety = XXXXX
        - reason for this clue = XXXXX

        Clue #4- TEIEDN - [The end is ever drawing near]
        - location = XXXXX
        - adventure = in fishing
        - ref to notoriety = XXXXX
        - reason for this clue = XXXXX

        Clue # 5- TBNP - [There'll be no paddle]
        - location = XXXXX
        - adventure = in exploring
        - ref to notoriety = Lewis Meriwether and William Clark
        - reason for this clue = two individuals who introduced Forrest to exploring the wilderness
        ++ "bull boat" - a small 'boat' that was made by ancient Native Americans to be used on shallow rivers for navigating and fishing. These were normally flat bottom boats that sat on top of the water. They also "did not require the use of paddles" or oars, but instead, the individual would use their hands to propel them in a forward motion..
        ++ These were also used by fur traders to navigate small rivers and streams on their journey - namely on the Missouri River in the early 1800s. During this usage, poles were used ("no paddle") to propel the boat and trapper.
        https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bull_boat

        Clue # 6 - UYC - [up your creek]
        - location = XXXXX
        - adventure = in Nature conservation
        - ref to notoriety = XXXXX
        - reason for this clue = XXXXX

        Clue #7- IYBWAFTB - [If you've been wise and found the blaze]
        - location = XXXXX
        - adventure = in Native American history
        - ref to notoriety = XXXXX
        - reason for this clue = XXXXX

        Clue #8(a) - LQD - [look quickly down]
        - location = XXXXX
        - adventure = in Art
        - ref to notoriety = Christian Dior & Andre Kohn
        - reason for this clue = Peggy's lure to fashion...and....
        = Christian Dior was an artist and then became a fashion designer. In 1947 he brought his newest designs, labeled as "The New Look" of fashion - to the world. This endeavor, catapulted him into the limelight and began a world-renowned success we all are familiar with and know. Whereas, Andre Kohn, a Russian born impressionist artist, was an artist who incorporated Christian Dior's fashion into his paintings, which then, also brought him fame, within the Art world. Many of the women painted - are "looking down".while walking, sitting, or even holding their hat
        + here are many extraordinary examples of his artwork, in addition, the link also contains a brief history and origin of the man:
        https://www.tuttartpitturasculturapo...-kohn.html?m=1

        As you can see, the elegance and absolute perfection in his art had a direct reflection upon not only the Art world, but also with Forrest and the industry he entered. Kohn was not only another Russian artist whom Forrest admired, but his genius of the color palette blew Forrest away so intensely, he included him within this Poem's legacy of important people.
        - and for people who are really paying attention, if you had visited the Denver Museum of Art and perused the scheduled events that they planned to host in 2018, you would have noticed that they had planned a Christian Dior exhibit, featuring many works by Christian Dior and Andre Kohn in the exhibition - this exhibit began in November 2018 and then ran through March 2019.
        + do you remember when Forrest said he would leave his vehicle in the parking lot of the museum? That was his hint to us all, to look at what was happening inside the museum...NOT what was happening on the outside.
        - https://www.bizjournals.com/denver/n...christian.html

        - When a person is at the clue's specific location - "XXXXX" - and when they turn their head - they will be "looking down" at the "hidey spot" - approximately 12 to 20 feet away, in which you can then travel to your next targetted destination.

        Clue #8(b) - YQTC - [you quest to cease]
        - location = XXXXX
        - adventure = in Art
        - ref to notoriety = XXXXX
        - reason for this clue = XXXXX

        Clue #9(a) - BTS - [But tarry scant]
        - location = XXXXX
        - adventure = in Imagination & Storytelling
        - ref to notoriety = Salvador Dali
        - reason for this clue = Surrealism and it being a "thinking man's artform" (as is "The Poem")
        ++ "tarry" - archaic use was "dally" = "Dali" = Salvador Dali
        = Forrest's association to the Art world and Impressionistic works of Art is clearly a direct connection.
        = Salvador Dali was "The Grandfather of Surrealism" in many facets. Surrealism requires imagination to understand it.
        = Every picture tells a story.
        https://youtu.be/T9GapvypdEo

        Clue #9(b) - WMG - [with marvel gaze]
        - location = XXXXX
        - adventure = in Imagination & Storytelling
        - ref to notoriety = XXXXX
        - reason for this clue = XXXXX

        ===============

        Yes - I have now supplied and published facts and details for approximately 6 different clues. Acceptance is not that hard, considering many have done so with just using a belief system of hearsay and the "Jack/Bill" created narrative - with not one single clue presented. Hmmmm - sounds like "blind faith".

        What limits are in place for you by doing the same with these facts? None. Your Free Will is in charge.
        - You do realize, "Jack/Bill" will never post his so-called general solve, because he has none to post?

        - Oh, that is right - "Jack/Bill" doesn't have the chest either - "it is in a vault in Santa Fe." - "Jack/Bill's" own words.

        As I have always stated, I highly encourage anyone to try and debunk these facts. There is no need for "data points" (?), no need for triangulation, no need for Math, no need for the wheel, nor a need to use the many ideas that have surfaced and promoted....those all failed too, huh?

        Forrest told us in summary to - "read my book and then read the Poem, and then go back and reread the book SLOWLY, and then try to match up the stories to the Poem."
        ++ in other words - "read about my life, the answers are in the Poem."
        ++ Which, as you can see - shows the book and the Poem to be DIRECT CONNECTIONS TO FORREST'S LIFE.
        ++ All you really need to say is...."Why didn't I think of that?"

        It was indeed that simple, especially when he told us what to do.

        "It's not impossible, but extremely difficult." - f.
        -- this statement clearly states it is also solvable!

        If you managed to read this far, pat yourself on your back for "reading another wall of information." LOLOLOL

        "It is not who you are, it is who they think you are." - f

        "Nothing is as it seems." - f

        =========================

        You do not know who I am.....but do you know who you are?

        https://youtu.be/-PmmMG-6mwo
        https://youtu.be/OUZeDOaheUE
        https://youtu.be/4Kxum8P-rzI
        https://youtu.be/g_CIdMmyrds

        How honest can you be with yourself and others?

        Thanks for reading my post/thread.

        P.S. How big is a post-it note? This big!!
        https://www.post-it.com/3M/en_US/pos...4529207&rt=rud

        Be sage.
        Tim
        In other words, "the solve" is whatever each of us wishes it to be? . . . Ho hum.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Old Pilot View Post

          In other words, "the solve" is whatever each of us wishes it to be? . . . Ho hum.
          No. It is the above solution.

          But of course, just saying it is whatever you wish, just goes to show you cannot (or had never tried to) debunk these answers.

          Thanks for responding.....I hope you are still trying to solve the Poem.

          Be safe.
          Tim

          Comment


          • #6
            Tim (ZosoRocks)

            Hello Tim. Just popped in today to see if and what anything of goings on. I see that you posted this. You and I had a few back and forths back in the day on Dal's . I've let this Chase "go" for interest for awhile now. I've spent much time after the announced ending , investigating the of such a strange ending. I've concluded through my investigation enough that I'm satisfied. No need for me to post it of what would be an "opinion" , no matter how compelling my presentation would be to me.

            I've read this post of yours for of the bulk of it, anyways.

            Im not about to "Debunk" your claims. For, there would need to be a comparison "control" to compare facts for fiction to of which of which is either fact , fiction or just a strong opinion. Forrest said it was found, he aporoved/verified the Finder. The last sentence is a fact of what Forrest officially said. Yet, opinions refute his statements of such as not being a truthful fact. For me, I am of the investigative opinion that the ending story and evidentiaries provided by Forrest and Jack are very likely not true. But , the TTOTC is over non-the-less.

            The "control" Question for you, Tim, is in what is your answer to the following question:

            I will ask you a question based on your statements made. In lieu of you saying that you solved the poem, location correctly...etc. That would mean that you were at some point, just before the announced find and after the announced find, that you were in possession of the Forrest Fenn Treasure Chest?

            There are only two potential answers. Each is only one word required.
            Yes
            or
            No

            If you say "yes" then I'll debunk your post.
            If you say "no" , then your post is nothing but a prevarication.

            Is this question fair of me to ask you?
            Last edited by Alsetenash; 05-25-2022, 10:10 PM.

            Comment


            • #7
              You wrote:
              "I will ask you a question based on your statements made. In lieu of you saying that you solved the poem, location etc;. That would mean that you were at some point, just before the announced find and after the announced find, that you were in possession of the Forrest Fenn Treasure Chest?

              There is only two potential answers. Each is only one word required.
              Yes
              or
              No

              If you say "yes" then I'll debunk your post.
              If you say "no" , then your post is nothing but a prevarication.

              Is this question fair of me to ask you?"

              =====================
              Hi Alsetenash - good to hear from you!

              I also stated I am not in possession of the chest, trove, treasure, or whatever you decide to use.

              I am also not sure if you had read this far - but the following exerpt was in my 2nd post above........

              ""Jack/Bill" doesn't have the chest either - "it is in a vault in Santa Fe." - "Jack/Bill's" own words."

              -----------------------
              So if I, nor he, has the chest "in their possession"......who does? Does this mean personal, public, someone one else's care, just an attached adage?

              Why do you use circumstantial evidence to make conclusions.....where as you can use facts to make conclusions with my solution?

              Your method sounds peculiar.

              "Is this question fair of me to ask you?"
              -- It is not. It's too vague, especially since I mentioned I did not have the "chest, trove, treasure", etc.

              it's like me stating.....

              "If you don't have a picture of yourself HOLDING OR HANDLING" the chest or its contents, it means that the find never happened for you."

              Show me a picture where "Jack/Bill" is "holding and handling" the chest or its contents.
              - There are none, huh?, but there are some of Dan Barbarisi. Why is he not the finder/solver? Answer: because he admitted he never found it and was amazed at seeing this one.

              Maybe this wasn't just about a chest? What if this was about a job interview? Think like Forrest, become a protege. His replacement position/title.

              What if....?
              What if....?

              What if solving the Poem was/is ample justification (with a provided picture of said location) for Forrest to end the Chase and then use this scenario being played out in front of us, to cover his tracks.

              What if....?
              What if....?

              Anyone - me, you, "Joe", "Ann", etc - not "debunking" any solution because of "whatever reason" is actually one way this puzzle will last 100s of years.

              At sometime, there has to be a line drawn. I've drawn the line.

              Do you choose not to verify these facts exist? Why not? Does this task take up too much time? Don't you want to see a truthful ending too?

              It is easier to accept logical facts and truths that actually tells another story about Forrest, than to believe a narrative that was created by some guy after Forrest died - without any proof at all.

              There must be some reason - because if your "chest" reason was the game changer, TBH Alsetenash, it doesn't cut it - you are asking about chest ownership as a defining answer to choose you will debunk or not? Wow.

              it truly sounds like you have placed some kind of bias in front of actual truth, all the while without proving the truth to be inaccurate. That sounds like another odd occurrence for an investigator to do.

              It really isn't that hard to provide evidence to say - "this clue is not true because of this reason (evidence)?" Your investigative prowess is in you, you said so yourself, but I think - with the above statement you make - you had stopped short because of some specific reason you won't debunk.

              What is it, if I may ask?

              Ignoring to debunk my solution and every other presented solution only slows down the process - that which is - of seeing the true solution. You do agree with this "method" - right?

              Well....what if all that I have presented IS NOT DEBUNKED? That is a step in the right direction, whether you agree with that or not, it is what helps.

              Anyhow sir, I posted this to help the community.....to give them hope in seeing the truth......so....It's good to see open verbal discussion.

              I truly would rather see critical thinking skills rip my details apart, so I can move on, instead of just verbal objections.....anyone can do that.

              Yes Alsetenash, times are changing for us. I left Dal's from being "in moderation" all the time.....but yes, I do remember some of those chats and discussions. If I never thanked you....i would like to do that now. Thanks bud.

              Thanks again for responding here Alt....hope to see more open discussion with you. I've stepped up my game.....come on in.

              *offers hand*


              Be sage.
              Tim
              Last edited by Tim (ZosoRocks); 05-25-2022, 10:58 PM.

              Comment


              • #8
                Tim (ZosoRocks)

                Hello Tim,

                I worded my writ purposefully. You stated that no one has debunked your stuff. You also never said this in this thread of your stuff until your responce:

                "I also stated I am not in possession of the chest, trove, treasure, or whatever you decide to use." (Tim)

                But, you did say this-"""Jack/Bill" doesn't have the chest either - "it is in a vault in Santa Fe." - "Jack/Bill's" own words."

                So, Tim, this is why , amongst other points you said, I wrote what I wrote. The "either" is in reference to "more than one person" and there are two persons mentioned in that sentence. But not precisely you stating "you don't have the chest" ( Neither).

                For Investigator , "Details", are important.

                Thats Is why I asked the question. I read most of your two writs, I skimmed some due to lack of details , just purposeful blanks on your part.

                I'll read more of your responce to respond to your detailed responce.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Tim (ZosoRocks)

                  Tim wrote:
                  " Do you choose not to verify these facts exist? Why not? Does this task take up too much time? Don't you want to see a truthful ending too? It is easier to accept logical facts and truths that actually tells another story about Forrest, than to believe a narrative created by some guy after Forrest died - without any proof at all."

                  What you hypothesized In your quote before the above statement, you said this:
                  "Maybe this wasn't just about a chest? What if this was about a job interview? Think like Forrest, become a protege. His replacement position/title."

                  It wasn't to find a "Protege" or "Replacement" or "Job Interview". But the TTOTC was actually created to "Find Someone". This I have concluded, for myself as said on here before, it was to find someone. Forrest was and still was CIA. My investigation conclusion concludes this., beyond a reasonable doubt. But that is just for me personally as a conclusion that I am satisfied with. I'm very detailed in my investigation. No need by me to give all those details here. For it doesn't matter and like your post....it would be concidered merely an opinion.

                  Tim Wrote:
                  "it truly sounds like you have placed some kind of bias in front of actual truth, all while not without proving the truth to be inaccurate. That sounds like another odd occurrence for an investigator to do."

                  Yes, I am biased about my investigative results. Still open to whatever opinion to a point. But I'm only biased as a result of my investigation.

                  Non of this matters though. Your proof is for you. You can't prove anything to anyone unless you actually found the chest and Forrest Fenn says you found it. As you NOW said you never found it. So all of what you stated as "fact" as you say, would not see a ruling in your favour in a court of law. Theretofor, no need for me to debunk your stuff.

                  I would and could back up my stuff in court with confidence , for I'm that confident . No ego, just confident. That's is why I asked you the point blank question about your equation of facts equals -Yes or No. because you never stated as such today until your responce .
                  Last edited by Alsetenash; 05-25-2022, 11:39 PM.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Hi Alt...thanks again for engaging.

                    You are right, I had not stated that I did not have the chest in these posts, but I have stated it multiple times elsewhere.

                    be safe.
                    Tim

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Hi Alt - I hope your- *shouts* - 3-DAY WEEKEND is going great !!

                      I wanted to folliw-up with something you posted:
                      "You can't prove anything to anyone unless you actually found the chest and Forrest Fenn says you found it."

                      As related to the "found" portion, I agree....because even Forrest stated as much.

                      But for the latter.....where does Forrest ever speak "Jack/Bill"'s name directly?

                      Or even - where does he sign a piece if paper that has him declaring "Jack/Bill":as the "finder"?

                      Then there is another statement you make....which follows...
                      "So all of what you stated as "fact" as you say, would not see a ruling in your favour in a court of law. Theretofor, no need for me to debunk your stuff."

                      It seems to me that you are also stating that my answers are untrue, without investigating those truths. Hmme true

                      I would disagree and stste that my facts would stand well in a court of law. That is how good they are, but that is because facts don't need something or someone to support them, they will stand alone and on their own......all they need is to connect factually and logically with Forrest - by 100%. Which would stand up in court....because they are true.

                      Thanks again friend. Good luck.
                      Tim

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Tim (ZosoRocks)

                        Facts? We all have what we determined as what we think are Facts. One can to get to, at best , is that of self assured beyond a reasonable doubt. That and absolute facts are different cousins , but it's the best we all can get to.

                        For me, it's the SB 178 The Graceiella Experience. That is the one that is the most important to me. It's loaded and heavy with Intel. There's much to decode in that, without bias because that is self defeating,

                        In my world, that SB is very important . If I have correctly decoded the poem ,then it's all in that SB as confirmers . If you don't see it then you simply don't see it. FF designed that SB for that purpose.

                        To me, this point of that SB is rather succinct. If you can't see it in that SB, then you can't . 3 times he published that SB with the incorrect title , knowingly on purpose. Once on Dal's originally and twice in his last two OUAW books. A big purposeful error with a purpose and intent. If you don't see that , then you simply don't.
                        Last edited by Alsetenash; 05-29-2022, 11:09 AM.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Old Pilot View Post

                          In other words, "the solve" is whatever each of us wishes it to be? . . . Ho hum.
                          Exactly! And if you told Forrest your "solve" he might grant your wish! (He just whispered to me that you have to have the right spot first, darn).
                          Last edited by Deja; 05-29-2022, 04:04 PM.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Tim (ZosoRocks) View Post
                            Clue # 2 - PIBTHOB - [Put in below the home of Brown]
                            - location = Philipsburg, Montana - John Brown lived in this city
                            - adventure = in the business world
                            - ref to notoriety = John Francis Dean "Sandbar" Brown
                            + John Brown became a Montanan fur trapper and trader.
                            + "In 1873 Andrew Jackson Davis hired Brown to locate mines in the early days of Butte, and his success in locating the Lexington and other substantial mines contributed to the early success of both the mining camp and Davis’ personal fortune."
                            http://fortbenton.blogspot.com/2014/...brown.html?m=1
                            + "He owned and edited the Philipsburg Mail newspaper, and for the next forty years, he managed and developed many placer and quartz mines in the area."
                            http://fortbenton.blogspot.com/2014/...brown.html?m=1
                            + "100 of placer nuggets are in the chest" - f
                            - reason for this clue = Forrest's first job was a paperboy delivering the Philipsburg Mail. John Brown owned the publication. There is a very high probability Forrest knew John Brown.

                            Clue # 3 - NPFTM - [no place for the meek]
                            - location = XXXXX
                            - adventure = in a child's playground
                            - ref to notoriety = XXXXX
                            - reason for this clue = XXXXX

                            Clue #4- TEIEDN - [The end is ever drawing near]
                            - location = XXXXX
                            - adventure = in fishing
                            - ref to notoriety = XXXXX
                            - reason for this clue = XXXXX

                            Clue # 5- TBNP - [There'll be no paddle]
                            - location = XXXXX
                            - adventure = in exploring
                            - ref to notoriety = Lewis Meriwether and William Clark
                            - reason for this clue = two individuals who introduced Forrest to exploring the wilderness
                            ++ "bull boat" - a small 'boat' that was made by ancient Native Americans to be used on shallow rivers for navigating and fishing. These were normally flat bottom boats that sat on top of the water. They also "did not require the use of paddles" or oars, but instead, the individual would use their hands to propel them in a forward motion..
                            ++ These were also used by fur traders to navigate small rivers and streams on their journey - namely on the Missouri River in the early 1800s. During this usage, poles were used ("no paddle") to propel the boat and trapper.
                            https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bull_boat

                            Clue # 6 - UYC - [up your creek]
                            - location = XXXXX
                            - adventure = in Nature conservation
                            - ref to notoriety = XXXXX
                            - reason for this clue = XXXXX

                            Clue #7- IYBWAFTB - [If you've been wise and found the blaze]
                            - location = XXXXX
                            - adventure = in Native American history
                            - ref to notoriety = XXXXX
                            - reason for this clue = XXXXX

                            Clue #8(a) - LQD - [look quickly down]
                            - location = XXXXX
                            - adventure = in Art
                            - ref to notoriety = Christian Dior & Andre Kohn
                            - reason for this clue = Peggy's lure to fashion...and....
                            = Christian Dior was an artist and then became a fashion designer. In 1947 he brought his newest designs, labeled as "The New Look" of fashion - to the world. This endeavor, catapulted him into the limelight and began a world-renowned success we all are familiar with and know. Whereas, Andre Kohn, a Russian born impressionist artist, was an artist who incorporated Christian Dior's fashion into his paintings, which then, also brought him fame, within the Art world. Many of the women painted - are "looking down".while walking, sitting, or even holding their hat
                            + here are many extraordinary examples of his artwork, in addition, the link also contains a brief history and origin of the man:
                            https://www.tuttartpitturasculturapo...-kohn.html?m=1

                            As you can see, the elegance and absolute perfection in his art had a direct reflection upon not only the Art world, but also with Forrest and the industry he entered. Kohn was not only another Russian artist whom Forrest admired, but his genius of the color palette blew Forrest away so intensely, he included him within this Poem's legacy of important people.
                            - and for people who are really paying attention, if you had visited the Denver Museum of Art and perused the scheduled events that they planned to host in 2018, you would have noticed that they had planned a Christian Dior exhibit, featuring many works by Christian Dior and Andre Kohn in the exhibition - this exhibit began in November 2018 and then ran through March 2019.
                            + do you remember when Forrest said he would leave his vehicle in the parking lot of the museum? That was his hint to us all, to look at what was happening inside the museum...NOT what was happening on the outside.
                            - https://www.bizjournals.com/denver/n...christian.html

                            - When a person is at the clue's specific location - "XXXXX" - and when they turn their head - they will be "looking down" at the "hidey spot" - approximately 12 to 20 feet away, in which you can then travel to your next targetted destination.

                            Clue #8(b) - YQTC - [you quest to cease]
                            - location = XXXXX
                            - adventure = in Art
                            - ref to notoriety = XXXXX
                            - reason for this clue = XXXXX

                            Clue #9(a) - BTS - [But tarry scant]
                            - location = XXXXX
                            - adventure = in Imagination & Storytelling
                            - ref to notoriety = Salvador Dali
                            - reason for this clue = Surrealism and it being a "thinking man's artform" (as is "The Poem")
                            ++ "tarry" - archaic use was "dally" = "Dali" = Salvador Dali
                            = Forrest's association to the Art world and Impressionistic works of Art is clearly a direct connection.
                            = Salvador Dali was "The Grandfather of Surrealism" in many facets. Surrealism requires imagination to understand it.
                            = Every picture tells a story.
                            https://youtu.be/T9GapvypdEo

                            Clue #9(b) - WMG - [with marvel gaze]
                            - location = XXXXX
                            - adventure = in Imagination & Storytelling
                            - ref to notoriety = XXXXX
                            - reason for this clue = XXXXX

                            ===============

                            Yes - I have now supplied and published facts and details for approximately 6 different clues. Acceptance is not that hard, considering many have done so with just using a belief system of hearsay and the "Jack/Bill" created narrative - with not one single clue presented. Hmmmm - sounds like "blind faith".

                            What limits are in place for you by doing the same with these facts? None. Your Free Will is in charge.
                            - You do realize, "Jack/Bill" will never post his so-called general solve, because he has none to post?

                            - Oh, that is right - "Jack/Bill" doesn't have the chest either - "it is in a vault in Santa Fe." - "Jack/Bill's" own words.

                            As I have always stated, I highly encourage anyone to try and debunk these facts. There is no need for "data points" (?), no need for triangulation, no need for Math, no need for the wheel, nor a need to use the many ideas that have surfaced and promoted....those all failed too, huh?

                            Forrest told us in summary to - "read my book and then read the Poem, and then go back and reread the book SLOWLY, and then try to match up the stories to the Poem."
                            ++ in other words - "read about my life, the answers are in the Poem."
                            ++ Which, as you can see - shows the book and the Poem to be DIRECT CONNECTIONS TO FORREST'S LIFE.
                            ++ All you really need to say is...."Why didn't I think of that?"

                            It was indeed that simple, especially when he told us what to do.

                            "It's not impossible, but extremely difficult." - f.
                            -- this statement clearly states it is also solvable!

                            If you managed to read this far, pat yourself on your back for "reading another wall of information." LOLOLOL

                            "It is not who you are, it is who they think you are." - f

                            "Nothing is as it seems." - f

                            =========================

                            You do not know who I am.....but do you know who you are?

                            https://youtu.be/-PmmMG-6mwo
                            https://youtu.be/OUZeDOaheUE
                            https://youtu.be/4Kxum8P-rzI
                            https://youtu.be/g_CIdMmyrds

                            How honest can you be with yourself and others?

                            Thanks for reading my post/thread.

                            P.S. How big is a post-it note? This big!!
                            https://www.post-it.com/3M/en_US/pos...4529207&rt=rud

                            Be sage.
                            Tim
                            Tim, how did you choose this particular John Brown as the specific Brown in which to be interested? Brown is a very common last name for people. This Brown died in 1931, so it's not likely (in my opinion) that Forrest ever knew him.
                            Last edited by Old Pilot; 05-30-2022, 01:16 AM.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Old Pilot View Post

                              Tim, how did you choose this particular John Brown as the specific Brown in which to be interested? Brown is a very common last name for people. This Brown died in 1931, so it's not likely (in my opinion) that Forrest ever knew him.
                              Brown, as per the poem, is actually a person's name, although the "home" was never owned by them.

                              I'd put money on that.

                              Comment

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