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To All of the Log Believers - Explain this to me Please...

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  • To All of the Log Believers - Explain this to me Please...

    In order for the new log to be THE log, we are told that weather caused the huge split in the old log to heal and close.

    If that is the case, then why was the split there to begin with. It would have healed and closed in the couple years it was there prior to Jack finding it.

    If anything, the wood will split even more over time, imo.

    If anyone has literature directly on point, I'd love to see it.

    It is not the same log.

  • #2
    Originally posted by JeremyP

    These are all great questions.

    Imagine hammering a wedge into a log. The pressure splits the log and the fibers of the log separate. Then imagine removing the wedge. What happens? The pressure is gone so it goes back to it's natural state. That's all that is going on here. It looks a lot more mysterious than it is.

    There is no expanding/collapsing breathing dead log here.

    It's just a wedge of pressure removed.
    If the tree was living then I would agree, but this is dead. Further, there is no information that indicates that anything was wedged in the split.

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by JeremyP

      These are all great questions.

      Imagine hammering a wedge into a log. The pressure splits the log and the fibers of the log separate. Then imagine removing the wedge. What happens? The pressure is gone so it goes back to it's natural state. That's all that is going on here. It looks a lot more mysterious than it is.

      There is no expanding/collapsing breathing dead log here.

      It's just a wedge of pressure removed.
      Yes I agree, the crack would not of been there at all if not for pressure, so perhaps Jack removed whatever was causing the pressure and then set the 42 lb chest on top of the log closing the gap, then two years passed with the crack closed. I think it all looks legit to me. Jack said if the location was discovered the solve would become apparent soon afterwards so time will tell, I will be trying to solve it using this location myself, time will tell. Thanks for all your input JeremyP.
      ​​

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Presque vu View Post

        Yes I agree, the crack would not of been there at all if not for pressure, so perhaps Jack removed whatever was causing the pressure and then set the 42 lb chest on top of the log closing the gap, then two years passed with the crack closed. I think it all looks legit to me. Jack said if the location was discovered the solve would become apparent soon afterwards so time will tell, I will be trying to solve it using this location myself, time will tell. Thanks for all your input JeremyP.
        Jumping through a lot of hoops to make it work. He closed the split by leaving the chest on it? What, for 10 minutes? Sorry, that does not make any sense.

        Comment


        • #5
          Anybody wanna bet the crack returns, at least a little bit, the next time its super dry for a long time? Probably late August, early September?

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by My Chase Quest View Post

            Jumping through a lot of hoops to make it work. He closed the split by leaving the chest on it? What, for 10 minutes? Sorry, that does not make any sense.
            I'm not trying to " make" it work, I'm just simply giving you a scenario to what might of happened I mean it's obviously the same log or very good Photoshop but I'm sure there are people heading there right now to crack the log back open and take photos.
            To me it's only a mystery of how the log closed up not if it's the same log.
            ​​

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            • #7
              The split is still there. You must not be looking at all the recent pictures. One clearly shows the split and how half of the top layer broke and covered the bottom. The picture is called "VgoklAz.jpeg" and shows how the layers (and holes/splits) are moving due to time and pressure.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by My Chase Quest View Post
                In order for the new log to be THE log, we are told that weather caused the huge split in the old log to heal and close.

                If that is the case, then why was the split there to begin with. It would have healed and closed in the couple years it was there prior to Jack finding it.

                If anything, the wood will split even more over time, imo.

                If anyone has literature directly on point, I'd love to see it.

                It is not the same log.
                Pine grain spirals slightly in many montane species, including lodgepole and ponderosa. The internal forces on timber created by expansion/contraction (scorching dry rocky mountain summer; snowmelt saturated now) are massive. the effect of this on a log cycling through wet/dry is a bit like a chinese finger trap. That is the evolutionary purpose of the spiraling grain; to give the wood strength to resist lateral forces ( wind while alive; analogously, the forces of expansion and contraction.)

                paper explaining forces referenced above:
                Mechanical response of wood perpendicular to grain when subjected to changes of humidityWood Science and Technology volume 36, pages 145–156 (2002)Cite this article




                Abstract

                This paper describes the deformations caused by stress and humidity interaction, mechano-sorption, in the cross grain directions of wood and the relaxation or accumulation of internal stresses caused by these deformations. Long-term tests on small clear specimens in cyclic climates with both tensile and compressive loads were carried out. The development of internal stresses in timber was measured indirectly at different times during the adsorption and desorption processes. Released deformations were measured from cross-sections after cutting them to small slices. These deformations were used to estimate the internal stresses caused by the humidity variations. Tests with constant loads and multiple humidity cycles show a mechano-sorptive strain that is ten times higher than the elastic strain. It is shown that existing models for describing mechano-sorption perpendicular to grain are inaccurate when applied to multiple humidity cycles. The present results demonstrate that if the mechano-sorptive behaviour and the moisture gradients in wood can be accurately described, it is possible to predict the stress distribution in a timber cross-section by knowing the climate history.


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                • #9
                  That said, the forces referenced above disappear when the wood rots. The "wedge" can be thought of as the forces created by these processes. "Removing the wedge" is simply decay.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by kilojoules View Post

                    Pine grain spirals slightly in many montane species, including lodgepole and ponderosa. The internal forces on timber created by expansion/contraction (scorching dry rocky mountain summer; snowmelt saturated now) are massive. the effect of this on a log cycling through wet/dry is a bit like a chinese finger trap. That is the evolutionary purpose of the spiraling grain; to give the wood strength to resist lateral forces ( wind while alive; analogously, the forces of expansion and contraction.)

                    paper explaining forces referenced above:



                    It says wood. Not dead trees. What kind of wood was used? Id imagine treated wood or lumber would react differently than a dead tree. A dead tree deteriorates and decomposes. It does not strengthen.

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                    • #11
                      Okay friend.
                      pm me email address for a pdf

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by kilojoules View Post
                        Okay friend.
                        pm me email address for a pdf
                        [email protected]

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          The most important thing here is the wood itself, they are different. Instead of asking chasers, swayed by their own biases, go ask some wood experts. None of them will tell you that a quarter inch crack will heal itself or completely disappear, it defies science and logic.
                          If you give a mouse a cookie. . .

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            One need not be a wood expert to grasp that dry wood cracks and wet wood swells. These two principles plus decay are all that is required here. Concluding without evidence that this has defied science and logic, though, defies science and logic.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by My Chase Quest View Post
                              In order for the new log to be THE log, we are told that weather caused the huge split in the old log to heal and close.

                              If that is the case, then why was the split there to begin with. It would have healed and closed in the couple years it was there prior to Jack finding it.

                              If anything, the wood will split even more over time, imo.

                              If anyone has literature directly on point, I'd love to see it.

                              It is not the same log.
                              The self healing log.

                              It is spring, so maybe it will become a tree again and claim to be the blaze. Anything is possible with fabricators Cynthia and Rudy.

                              Why kpro falls for this garbage every time is beyond my understanding.

                              Comment

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