Did FF lie? Question that's bothering me...

[Max23]

Glad I could help. That’s all very interesting and I agree, Jack said he didn’t have the blaze figured out in 2018 but he did in 2019 and got within 6 feet so yep that satisfies the definition of precise for me. I always said there might be some importance about the clue before the blaze which includes the word “just” which can mean exactly or precisely.

Using that same logic, maybe something else also after locating the blaze and looking down. There comes another 'just' take the chest, if that meant (exactly/precisely) or (simply/no more than) there is precision involved.

[Edgewoodian]

One important thing about Forrest saying the poem led the finder to the precise spot... is the timing. Forrest typed that and had it published before he met with Jack. Unless they had a long phone call about Jack's solve, there's no way Forrest could have known the details. A good detective will look at the motivation of a witness to say certain things. In context, Forrest precedes this statement by saying he didn't know the guy. So you have to wonder why he felt it was important for his audience to know that he #1 didn't know the finder, and #2 that he found it using the poem. We all sort of already assumed the poem would lead the finder to the exact spot. Almost as if he was trying to convince the reader that nothing was unusual about the find. HMMMM.

[Rose Livingstone]

What if you found the treasure, could see it but not touch it because of something restraining you from getting any closer.
Like a fence, a barrier, a piece of glass, metal bars, etc etc.
He said PLEASE TOUCH but what if we can't?

Boat or climbing shoes/ a fence+1’ ladder, Kitty Pryde/ Nightcrawler/ a transporter, a diamond tipped drill bit/ opera singer, corrosive acid/ Thermite/ a file baked in a cake/ compromised bailiff?

Scoff, “rules”…

[trueyeti]

Hello. I'm sorry if this has been discussed and I just missed it but these two statements are contradictory and seem to indicate that Forrest intentionally lied:

6/16/20 "but the poem in my book led him to the precise spot." - Forrest Fenn
9/23/20 Medium post: "I figured out the location where he wished to die (and thus, where his treasure was) back in 2018, but it took me many months to figure out the exact spot." - Finder

Has this been discussed somewhere I can watch/read about? Everyone generally agrees that FF is incredibly careful and deliberate with his words so I can't believe that in his written statement about the treasure being found he just made an error. Do most folks agree he lied about the poem leading the finder to the treasure? Am I missing something?

Thanks in advance!

Hey WCR,
In my experience the poem took me to the Bisti Badlands. When there...I found 9 clues on the ground in the shape of a W/M. The poem got me there and what I found on the ground, along with the poem got me the rest of the way. Those statements from Forrest and the finder have built in misdirection IMO. Heck, the poem is an excercise in misdirection. Long ago in another website after the chest's recovery, I said something like "we should be highly skeptical of anything coming out of the Forrest camp. And now that includes the finder." He can say pretty much anything he likes....does that mean we should believe everything he says? Skeptisism is healty. Bisti provides strong evidence contrary to Wyoming for example, but he said "Wyoming." But that place does not have a locality that rises to meet the 7-elements.

Forrest also uses Milay's quote "palace in the sand" to describe the place where he felt the most comfortable, and then after the tragic deaths of searchers, he said something like "If your solve is in the dessert, then get a new solve." Contradiction is implicit in many of the things Forrest said and are characteristic of the trickster archetype. Heck its in the poem too. Who is to say that when the poem reads "look quickly down," it doesn't mean, "look slowly up?" See what I mean? Cheers.

[Ozzy]

Using that same logic, maybe something else also after locating the blaze and looking down. There comes another 'just' take the chest, if that meant (exactly/precisely) or (simply/no more than) there is precision involved.

Agree! He left the door open for him to go back after writing the poem and die there beside the chest. So “Just” the chest and “Leave my bones alone”. Lots of precise instructions near the end of the clues.

So if 9MH is the correct area then Jack would have “just/precisely” walked within/up a dry creek channel with fallen timber laying across (seasonal snow melt and mountain run-off maybe) and while walking up that creek channel he should have found/spotted the Blaze. But it was damaged so he walked within 6 feet of the chest but couldn’t recognize the blaze nor spot the chest which after 10 years was almost buried by it’s own weight and pines needles and forest debris.

That all sounds believable to me and would explain the contradiction in this OP.

nice work Max23! Now if someone would share the answers to the clues from this alleged video

[WindyCityRambler]

I do not think FF ever lied. To lie is intentional. I think FF being human did unintentionally say some misleading things from time to time and when he did he always attempted to correct.

Now, to your question: The best logical answer might be explained by what Jack says was a damaged blaze. Somewhere Jack says the blaze was damaged and when he finally found the chest via a 20+ day grid search the chest was about 6 feet from where he originally looked in 2018. So the poem may have been fairly precise with a working and visible blaze. Hope that helps.

But Jack doesn't say he followed the poem at all... he says he figured out where FF wants to die using a slip-up from a 2013 video, right?. I can't imagine FF not asking about Jack's solve when they first met after Jack found the chest so he should have known that Jack didn't use the poem.

[Ozzy]

But Jack doesn't say he followed the poem at all... he says he figured out where FF wants to die using a slip-up from a 2013 video, right?. I can't imagine FF not asking about Jack's solve when they first met after Jack found the chest so he should have known that Jack didn't use the poem.

I don’t have time to do that research but will say that your statement is not accurate or in the right context. The slip-up was a helpful confirmation but not a case cracking slip up. The research data is out there to confirm what I am saying. Hope that helps.

[Knowledge]

What if you found the treasure, could see it but not touch it because of something restraining you from getting any closer.
Like a fence, a barrier, a piece of glass, metal bars, etc etc.
He said PLEASE TOUCH but what if we can't?

I would say you phone a Fenn, or a friend. That is what should be done, I would say that much is owed, to Forrest Fenn and his chase.
Ya, they can change their number, can they change their name ?

[Max23]

The word "about" is almost totally meaningless, in this context. Compared to the distance between the Milky Way Galaxy and its closest "neighboring galaxy", "our" sun is about 6 feet away from Santa Fe (pick whichever one suits your fancy). I'm ignoring anything and everything the jackster has ever said, even if he once said "I'm hungry".

Come on Old Pilot, what did the Jackster ever do to you??? Oh yeah, that.

Six, ten, or even 20 feet can be considered precise enough if we take into consideration, as Ozzy said, 10 years of forest debris, foliage growth, etc.

[Sherif Billy]

"Walk right by" is mostly meaningless. If you put a penny on the floor, and then walk around that penny, you have "walked right by" almost everything on this planet. Yes, some are pretty far away, but who mentioned distance when talking about "walking right by" something? I don't think it was ever FF's intention that a sloppy thinker would ever find the trove after Fenn hid it in the wilderness of the Rocky Mountains.

OP-
Did you just imply that Cynthia (Lucky penny) just walked right by it?
1f Billy

[Sherif Billy]

It's highly likely that FF lied several times in his life, but I believe that most of his statements were not lies. The poem should be solvable on its own merits, unless it's fraudulent/false/invalid.

I never believed that Jack Stuef is Forrest Fenn. And I never believed that the blaze that the poem mentions is right above the hidey spot, or was suddenly damaged
by nature to the degree that the blaze hardly looks like it did 11 years ago. I believe that the blaze is pretty large, very durable, and looks substantially the same now
as it did 11 years ago. But I can't much prove any of this.

For about $10,000 for my time, I'll bet I could find some random person that took a picture of it, not knowing what they were looking at. I am absolutely certain that Forrest would have taken a picture of it when he discovered it. I'm convinced it was sacred to the Indians for thousands of years, which is likely how he discovered it in the first place.
1f Billy

[Space Hopper]

For about $10,000 for my time, I'll bet I could find some random person that took a picture of it, not knowing what they were looking at. I am absolutely certain that Forrest would have taken a picture of it when he discovered it. I'm convinced it was sacred to the Indians for thousands of years, which is likely how he discovered it in the first place.
1f Billy

Not having cameras back then, I wonder if those Indian's used a similar method to Vermeer and projected images of the blaze.

[Sherif Billy]

Not having cameras back then, I wonder if those Indian's a used similar method to Vermeer and projected images of the blaze.

What is your occupation Mr. hopper? ?..art historian?

If what I believe to be the blaze to be correct, it appears that tapping sound reverberating through the passing centuries, was not from leprechauns but rather from them Indians creating the largest known petroglyph on the surface of Forrest's blaze.

[Round Peg, Square Hole]

Not having cameras back then, I wonder if those Indian's used a similar method to Vermeer and projected images of the blaze.

Great observation! If the candle fit through that hole, I bet I can...

[steve66]

Hello. I'm sorry if this has been discussed and I just missed it but these two statements are contradictory and seem to indicate that Forrest intentionally lied:

6/16/20 "but the poem in my book led him to the precise spot." - Forrest Fenn
9/23/20 Medium post: "I figured out the location where he wished to die (and thus, where his treasure was) back in 2018, but it took me many months to figure out the exact spot." - Finder

Has this been discussed somewhere I can watch/read about? Everyone generally agrees that FF is incredibly careful and deliberate with his words so I can't believe that in his written statement about the treasure being found he just made an error. Do most folks agree he lied about the poem leading the finder to the treasure? Am I missing something?

Thanks in advance!

Look, if I give you my address so you can visit me, that's inaccurate, house number 17 has 2 entrances and 8 apartments. In fact, the bell button is exactly at 44.52250433/-147.46454335 on 4022.2 feet - but do I have to tell you that exactly? No, number 17 is enough and you will press exactly the right bell. No lie.