Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Density of Gold

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Density of Gold

    So here's something to think about. Has anyone here ever picked up a large bar of gold? Neither have I.

    I assumed it would be similar to steel. Even at that rate, when I saw the chest in early pictures, I thought "how can that only weigh 42 pounds?" I work with steel every day, so it was just a gut feeling that the two didn't match. Could gold be that much less dense than steel? Steel is pretty heavy after all. It is about .284 lbs/in^3. Meaning that a cube 1 inch on all sides would weigh .284 pounds.

    Lead is .410 lbs/in^3
    Mercury is .490 lbs/in^3
    Gold is .698 lbs/in^3.

    Wow! That means for the same size object, gold is nearly 2.5 times heavier than steel!

    I'm guessing the chest is 8.75 x 8.75 x 4 inside. A pure gold bar that size would weigh 213 pounds. Plus the weight of the cast bronze chest at 20 pounds (which is reasonably close to what I would figure it to be) would yield a total of 233 pounds. Granted, the volumetric efficiency of the gold contents would be about 50%. I verified this by experiment.

    Even at that rate, the total of the chest and contents as initially shown would be 126 pounds. This makes the chest shown in Jack's pictures more believable. A half full box, with plenty of voids between the gold. But even that (at 50% V.E.) this would weigh 73 pounds total. That would have been an easy detail for Jack to give to us, if he were the real finder. Not sure what this means if he isn't the real finder. Is the bottom filled with balsa wood?

    Someone recently wrote that maybe 22 is an important number. Not sure what their reasoning was, but my 22 sure is an anomaly.

  • #2
    Originally posted by ICV. View Post
    So here's something to think about. Has anyone here ever picked up a large bar of gold? Neither have I.

    I assumed it would be similar to steel. Even at that rate, when I saw the chest in early pictures, I thought "how can that only weigh 42 pounds?" I work with steel every day, so it was just a gut feeling that the two didn't match. Could gold be that much less dense than steel? Steel is pretty heavy after all. It is about .284 lbs/in^3. Meaning that a cube 1 inch on all sides would weigh .284 pounds.

    Lead is .410 lbs/in^3
    Mercury is .490 lbs/in^3
    Gold is .698 lbs/in^3.

    Wow! That means for the same size object, gold is nearly 2.5 times heavier than steel!

    I'm guessing the chest is 8.75 x 8.75 x 4 inside. A pure gold bar that size would weigh 213 pounds. Plus the weight of the cast bronze chest at 20 pounds (which is reasonably close to what I would figure it to be) would yield a total of 233 pounds. Granted, the volumetric efficiency of the gold contents would be about 50%. I verified this by experiment.

    Even at that rate, the total of the chest and contents as initially shown would be 126 pounds. This makes the chest shown in Jack's pictures more believable. A half full box, with plenty of voids between the gold. But even that (at 50% V.E.) this would weigh 73 pounds total. That would have been an easy detail for Jack to give to us, if he were the real finder. Not sure what this means if he isn't the real finder. Is the bottom filled with balsa wood?

    Someone recently wrote that maybe 22 is an important number. Not sure what their reasoning was, but my 22 sure is an anomaly.
    What definition of "pound" did Forrest use? If he used a trone pound, then each pound could be up to 28 ounces. Since there are 16 ounces in the commonly used avoirdupois pound today, that would make 42 trone pounds = 73.5 avoirdupois pounds. Interstingly that is the same weight you calculated for a 50% full box.

    Perhaps he wanted to demonstrate that system of weights is just as stupid as the English language.
    Last edited by pws111; 10-01-2021, 05:22 PM.

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by ICV. View Post
      So here's something to think about. Has anyone here ever picked up a large bar of gold? Neither have I.

      I assumed it would be similar to steel. Even at that rate, when I saw the chest in early pictures, I thought "how can that only weigh 42 pounds?" I work with steel every day, so it was just a gut feeling that the two didn't match. Could gold be that much less dense than steel? Steel is pretty heavy after all. It is about .284 lbs/in^3. Meaning that a cube 1 inch on all sides would weigh .284 pounds.

      Lead is .410 lbs/in^3
      Mercury is .490 lbs/in^3
      Gold is .698 lbs/in^3.

      Wow! That means for the same size object, gold is nearly 2.5 times heavier than steel!

      I'm guessing the chest is 8.75 x 8.75 x 4 inside. A pure gold bar that size would weigh 213 pounds. Plus the weight of the cast bronze chest at 20 pounds (which is reasonably close to what I would figure it to be) would yield a total of 233 pounds. Granted, the volumetric efficiency of the gold contents would be about 50%. I verified this by experiment.

      Even at that rate, the total of the chest and contents as initially shown would be 126 pounds. This makes the chest shown in Jack's pictures more believable. A half full box, with plenty of voids between the gold. But even that (at 50% V.E.) this would weigh 73 pounds total. That would have been an easy detail for Jack to give to us, if he were the real finder. Not sure what this means if he isn't the real finder. Is the bottom filled with balsa wood?

      Someone recently wrote that maybe 22 is an important number. Not sure what their reasoning was, but my 22 sure is an anomaly.
      I wouldn't take any of Fenn's numbers claims seriously. As Suzanne Somers said, he was America's storyteller, and it should be pretty clear by now that he was quite a (to put it politely) "salesman". What did you mean by your last sentence about "my 22 sure is an anomaly"? I think Forrest may have emphasized the number 22 a
      bit in order to refer to his birth date (August 22). The idea not being as much "when", as the fact of birth. I think it's significant, in a small way, to the solve.
      Last edited by Old Pilot; 10-02-2021, 02:11 AM.

      Comment


      • #4
        You may be right. I can see Forrest doing something like that. He did write about all of those archaic unit of measurement once. Not that I'd complain about "only" 22 conventional pounds of gold. Maybe I'll bring a two-wheel hand truck with me on my next BOG, just in case.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Old Pilot View Post

          I wouldn't take any of Fenn's numbers claims seriously. As Suzanne Somers said, he was America's storyteller, and it should be pretty clear by now that he was quite a (to put it politely) "salesman".
          Yep - and he always had such colorful adventures....

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by wwwamericana View Post

            Yep - and he always had such colorful adventures....
            I wonder whether he suffered PTSD after his tour of Viet Nam, and was (purposefully or not) trying to live in some kind of fantasy world . . . of rainbows, unicorns, supernatural beings, etc. in order to help himself stay calm and not suffer a nervous breakdown. People try to cope -- in various ways.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by ICV. View Post
              You may be right. I can see Forrest doing something like that. He did write about all of those archaic unit of measurement once. Not that I'd complain about "only" 22 conventional pounds of gold. Maybe I'll bring a two-wheel hand truck with me on my next BOG, just in case.
              I built a special cart (kinda similar to a two-wheel hand truck) for retrieval, as the hike is a long one and the ground is not all smooth and level. The cart proved to be rather unwieldy. However, it was a fun project to design and build. If I did it again, knowing what I now know, I would make the cart a bit narrower, and use two
              axles instead of one. The lightweight sponge-rubber tires were a great thing, as the ground was a little muddy in May. Since that trip, I don't go that early in the
              year any more. Late July is better, regarding the condition of the dirt, which seems to have a fair amount of clay in it. It wasn't easy walking in wet clay. Please do some research about safety and legality before you search, okay? Better to be prepared than not.
              Last edited by Old Pilot; 10-02-2021, 02:08 AM.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Old Pilot View Post

                What did you mean by your last sentence about "my 22 sure is an anomaly"?
                Sorry I missed this question earlier. I simply meant that Forrest said the contents of the chest were 22 pounds. It is an anomaly in the sense that this weight doesn't seem to match the pictures shown.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by ICV. View Post

                  Sorry I missed this question earlier. I simply meant that Forrest said the contents of the chest were 22 pounds. It is an anomaly in the sense that this weight doesn't seem to match the pictures shown.
                  Sounds kind of mean if you ask me. I mean, to lie a bout the interior contents of the chest. Maybe Forrest - being in the middle - was picked on all the time when he was little so he had to stretch the truth to get by. In this case maybe he stretched it only half way. Makes sense if you consider the whole timeline of the Chase and Forrest being between a rock and a hard place. If I were him, I'd lean that way too. In the same manner, My War For Me could be a demonstration of what Forrest faced in life and how he learned to traveled the easier road in the end. That would put an X near a place where it's always been.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Suzy View Post

                    Sounds kind of mean if you ask me. I mean, to lie a bout the interior contents of the chest.
                    I'm not sure how mean it is if he lied, but the "lie" was that there was much more gold than what you had thought. Even if the bottom 3 inches is a piece of styrofoam and the 22 pounds of gold is just a layer on top, I'd be super happy with that. But I don't think Forrest would have something like that be part of his story.

                    When he said the chest was almost to heavy for one man to lift - didn't 42 pounds total seem a little to light for that? Sure, it might be heavy if you hiked out with it for over a mile on your back, but for one man to lift?

                    I think everyone assumed Forrest was a "sickly" eighty year old man when he hid it, so 42 pounds would be heavy for him. Why do we think Forrest was frail and sickly? He beat the cancer 20 years earlier. Given a new lease on life. Probably took extra good care of himself after that. I've known some pretty capable older people, so I'm not going to underestimate him.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Here's a crazy thought. What if there the chest and contents were too heavy to carry out all at once? So you had to leave some of it behind. But Fenn had one last surprise - he booby-trapped it with a smoke grenade (s-can). So you're trying to sneak out of there, but there is a plume of smoke at the hiding location. You would tarry scant. Do you go back, with people investigating the smoke, or do you just cut your losses and take your gains? Would certainly make the news, if people investigating smoke found gold when they got there. Fenn was very confident he would know when it was found.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Forrest said there were 265 gold coins, mostly eagles and double eagles. If we assume half were eagles and half were double eagles, that alone adds up to over 6,000 grams, or about 13.4 pounds. Add two nuggets the size of hen eggs weighing over a pound apiece and that gives you around 16 pounds. Lots of smaller nuggets, he said, and two gold mirrors and two gold frogs. Hard to estimate but it must be getting reasonably close to the alleged 22 pounds while accounting for most of the items listed in the chest.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Gunrunner View Post
                          Forrest said there were 265 gold coins, mostly eagles and double eagles. If we assume half were eagles and half were double eagles, that alone adds up to over 6,000 grams, or about 13.4 pounds. Add two nuggets the size of hen eggs weighing over a pound apiece and that gives you around 16 pounds. Lots of smaller nuggets, he said, and two gold mirrors and two gold frogs. Hard to estimate but it must be getting reasonably close to the alleged 22 pounds while accounting for most of the items listed in the chest.
                          This seems sensible to me. Is there anything worth arguing about, anywhere in this thread? By the way, Forrest's repeated mention of the nuggets compared to eggs seems like a little tease relating to reproduction/life/birth. Not a huge hint, but it does tend to support my solve a little.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by ICV. View Post
                            Here's a crazy thought. What if there the chest and contents were too heavy to carry out all at once? So you had to leave some of it behind. But Fenn had one last surprise - he booby-trapped it with a smoke grenade (s-can). So you're trying to sneak out of there, but there is a plume of smoke at the hiding location. You would tarry scant. Do you go back, with people investigating the smoke, or do you just cut your losses and take your gains? Would certainly make the news, if people investigating smoke found gold when they got there. Fenn was very confident he would know when it was found.
                            I suppose that could be possible -- and not too crazy . . . but I kinda question the associated safety of that kind of a booby-trap. I don't think Forrest would have gone to the trouble of using that specific device (smoke grenade). And a person capable of solving the poem might be wary of physical/mechanical trickery/trap(s). Regarding Forrest's actual knowledge (i.e., being informed of a find) when the trove was to be found, I'm guessing that he would have another "mechanism" in mind.
                            And I don't necessarily mean a mechanical device such as a wire, switch, transmitter, etc.
                            I think it would be more like a required "hoop to jump through". In other words, a task that the finder would have to perform in order to receive the trove itself -- , and the performance of this task would make enough news that it would alert Forrest to the find . . . even if -- hopefully, anyway -- it could all be done while guarding the
                            privacy and identity of the finder. I may be addressing logistics soon, in another thread.
                            Last edited by Old Pilot; 10-04-2021, 12:26 AM.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Scientific research has led to the discovery of the heaviest element yet known. The new element, governmentium (Gv), has one neutron, 25 assistant neutrons, 88 deputy neutrons, and 198 assistant deputy neutrons, giving it an atomic mass of 312."These 312 particles are held together by forces called morons, which are surrounded by vast quantities of lepton-like particles called peons. Since governmentium has no electrons, it is inert; however, according to the team of research scientists in Budapest, it can be detected because it impedes every reaction with which it comes into contact."Governmentium has a normal half-life of two to six years. It does not decay, but instead undergoes a reorganisation in which a portion of the assistant neutrons and deputy neutrons exchange places."In fact, governmentium’s mass will actually increase over time, since each reorganisation will cause more morons to become neutrons, forming isodopes. This characteristic of moron promotion leads some scientists to believe that governmentium is formed whenever morons reach a critical concentration. This hypothetical quantity is referred to as critical morass."When catalysed with money, governmentium becomes administratium, an element that radiates just as much energy as governmentium since it has half as many peons but twice as many morons."

                              Comment

                              Working...
                              X