Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Why NOT 9 Mile Hole? Let me count the ways....

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #46
    Originally posted by rimsbrock View Post

    No, I don't, and I don't mean to be a jerk about it. Rudy and I have discussed this matter already quite a lot; I always enjoyed it and I really respect his commitment. But for me the correct solution is not a matter of believe - It has to be convincing. There is hardly anything convincing about the Madison, which to me means that if this area should turn out to be the correct solve, then Forrest did a terrible job with both construction his poem and communicating it with the public.

    To me this area seems so wrong, that I consider it more reasonable to believe that Jack changed to an entirely different location in the end. And for the most part, I was looking for hints about this change in his reddit account.
    It's time for a Journey to the Bighorns...

    Comment


    • #47
      Originally posted by Goldilocks View Post

      Vertigo I respect the work you put into this solve but I do not think you have fairly characterized this thread. And Jack's vague statements?? I think any solve should stand on its own and not be dependent on any one particular thing but the body of what has been said by the one and only source for information, Forrest. Is Forrest a reliable source? I would hope so and so yes, I weigh all of the things he has said to any location. I am not saying Nine Mile Hole is wrong. I don't know just like you don't know. All we can do is make educated guesses at this point since there is no chest to confirm anything.
      I would love to hear a better WWWH than Madison Junction. And not only fitting with the poem but fitting with what was most special to FF and his life.
      Begin IT where warm waters halt
      The Madison River literally Begins where two geothermically warmed rivers(warm waters) end/halt (Gibbon & Firehole)

      What place could be more special to FF than three of his most cherished rivers?

      Comment


      • #48
        Originally posted by Cary_Galloway View Post

        I would love to hear a better WWWH than Madison Junction. And not only fitting with the poem but fitting with what was most special to FF and his life.
        Begin IT where warm waters halt
        The Madison River literally Begins where two geothermically warmed rivers(warm waters) end/halt (Gibbon & Firehole)

        What place could be more special to FF than three of his most cherished rivers?
        There is no reason to believe that Forrest could not be secretive about what is really precious to him - it is certainly possible that there is a place out there that was deeply meaningful to him and that he never talked about to anyone.

        For example, it is certainly reasonable to assume that for the lasting effect it had on him the magical clearing in the Vietnam forrest was much more special to him than any of the rivers you mentioned. Yet, he talked much more about the rivers. I think that Forrest was capable of loving a meaningful place and keeping it a cherished secret.

        It is a fallacy to believe that his emotional connection to the place needs to be apparent, in order to verify the correct location.

        Comment


        • #49
          Originally posted by rimsbrock View Post
          It is a fallacy to believe that his emotional connection to the place needs to be apparent, in order to verify the correct location.
          Not according to Jack. And Jack has the chest.

          Comment


          • #50
            Originally posted by Cary_Galloway View Post
            Jack said as TheCondor2: "“Sounds from your posts like you're visiting my stretch of the Madison."
            And since the chest was found in Wyoming, that doesn't leave too many places that fit the clues. I think it is about 12 miles of Madison river in Wyoming.

            Where do you think it was Goldilocks?
            No idea whatsoever. I never figured out wwwh so if I don't know where to start I certainly don't know where it ends. I have lots of theories but never had enough certainty in anything and still don't. In regards to your other question, who said wwwh had to have a deep personal meaning to Forrest? It was a starting point.
            Last edited by Goldilocks; 09-16-2021, 07:26 AM.

            Comment


            • #51
              Originally posted by Goldilocks View Post
              Thought it would be good to have a separate thread to talk about possible reasons the 9 mile hole solve does not work. What are the flaws in this latest theory? I try not to get swept up with the latest developments unless there are facts. For starters I'm not convinced Jack was thecondor2 which a lot of the supporting "evidence" for 9 mile is based upon. I haven't been to this location so I can't speak with firsthand knowledge. I do have questions.

              How can a spot so close to a parking lot yet treacherous enough to evade stumblers be safe enough for an elderly gentleman or young child?
              Why leave your partner in the car?
              How is imagination key in this solve?
              When asked about why the poem doesn’t rhyme he said, “I was limited in my ability” f. If the correct interpretation of the poem was so straight forward, what ability was he talking about?
              Why does one need a comprehensive knowledge of geography for this particular spot?
              Forrest said don't let logic distract you from the poem. Wouldn't that mean we shouldn't be too logical or oversimplify?

              It was hard enough interpreting Forrest's words, now we have Jack's words clouding things. If you take Jack's words completely out of the picture and just use Forrest's words, are people just as confident in this location?
              I could come up with my own set of questions about Forrest's statements. Such as:

              Why did he "feel like an architect"? And why did he say "as an architect sits down and starts drawing lines - that's what I started doing".
              Why did he and Doug Preston say it would be so difficult and maybe take 1000 years (paraphrasing their statements)?
              Why did he emphasize every word in the poem being important (or almost every word)? Why did it take 15 years? Why did he see the poem as such a masterpiece?
              Why did he emphasize that the poem needed to be followed precisely and imply that the poem was precise to a few steps?
              Why would he hide it in a cherished and carefully guarded National Park, full of danger if you get off trail? How could he imply there would be no legal question?
              What was the thing that you probably haven't thought of that would be obvious once you are there? (Apparently its not so obvious or only Jack will ever know).
              Why did he say this or that?

              Of course Forrest said and wrote so many things - most of it with no meaning or application to the solve. Some of the things I thought had some meaning apparently didn't.

              The truth is that most of these things are a matter of perspective - Forrest's vs. your own. That's where Jack won and what makes him a "genius". That's his gift. Hat's off.

              I was convinced 9MH had to be the location before Condor2 because that's the best logical explanation for how Jack found it and figured out the poem in two months. And once you strip down all your own personal biases and cognitive biases, it starts to come in focus and it becomes more clear. It's simple. It makes sense. It's a sacred place to Forrest Fenn.

              Of course Forrest would put it in the Park - that's who he was. Of course he would hide it next to a secret creek at a cherished fishing hole from his childhood. That's who he was. Of course "IT" is the Madison river - he was umbilically attached to it. Of course that's where he wanted to die - he told us that. Brilliant approach to the solution by Jack - I wish I had started with that as my main premise as he did. I never saw anyone else do that either.

              Frankly, I like my solve WAY BETTER than the real one. It is precise, and relates a little to his pilot navigation. It's not in a National Park. It's full of clever solutions to his clues/riddles (NOT). It has fishing, Brown Trout, a river, pine trees, and red neck word play. Even a little red neck humor - the kind a Texan from his generation (like my own father) would use.

              But alas, that's my arrogance talking. That's too much my perspective and not enough of Forrest's. That's why I lost.

              I don't think there is any other explanation that is going to beat out 9MH. I was already convinced before Condor2, but after that, it nailed it shut. Beyond any reasonable doubt. There might be some surprises about the exact spot, but I kind of doubt it. I think if the chest was still there, we could all go do the GPS grid search of the "football field" and find it eventually. It's just a matter of having the humility to accept it and maybe learn something from it. Can we come out of our self centered worlds long enough to see it? It's tough, but it's a good lesson to learn.

              So there's a lot of things Forrest said that you aren't going to agree with and wouldn't have put it that way. It's hard to find any solid, direct controverting evidence to 9 MH though. I haven't seen any. But the case for it is overwhelming at this point. Mind you, I don't care as I wasn't even close really. I don't need it to be the right spot. But it seems so clear now that it is.

              It was a "special place with secrets" to a ninety year old fly fishing guide who learned his trade in YNP as a boy while staying with his parents and grandparents in the 1930s and 40s. That will make an impression on you for life that you will never ever forget and cherish until the day you die.

              Comment


              • #52
                Originally posted by Goldilocks View Post
                Let me ask you this since you have been out to the location and I have not. Once at the blaze, is the chest location obvious? Forrest said it would be.
                I did not find anything (yet) I considered a viable damaged blaze in the areas I searched on the Madison. According to Jack's story, the chest and the blaze are visible together at the same time so that does match Forrest's prediction that it would be obvious. I don't know otherwise how to answer this question without the chest still in place.
                Rudy Green[e]
                whereis.thehomeofBrown.com

                Comment


                • #53
                  Originally posted by Cary_Galloway View Post

                  Not according to Jack. And Jack has the chest.
                  No he doesn’t. It’s apparently still secured at the law firms office.
                  why do you suppose that is? It sure looks as if Jack has no further say in the matter. After all, it’s been more than a year and all we’re seeing is bloviation from someone pretending to be Jack. Other than a couple of paid appearances…

                  Comment


                  • #54
                    Must Listengood great questions. We actually don't know which things Forrest said had meaning and which didn't so don't discount anything based on Jack's words. Jack doesn't have all the answers either and we don't know for certain how he acquired the chest if in fact he is in possession of it. Genius? If someone lies, cheats and steals to get to the top does that make them a genius? I'm not saying Jack did, just pointing out that we don't have solid answers of any kind. All the reasons you mentioned for the 9 Mile area are true, yes it was close to Forrest's heart.

                    Comment


                    • #55
                      Rudy aka thehomeofBrown.com , in your exploration of the NMH area, did you come across anything that looked like it could be the remains of an old beaver's dam or lodge? I'm assuming there's no current beaver activity, but I'm Just curious if any other signs remain.
                      Last edited by elbert_ainstein; 09-16-2021, 10:02 AM.

                      Comment


                      • #56
                        Originally posted by elbert_ainstein View Post
                        Rudy, in your exploration of the NMH area, did you come across anything that looked like it could be the remains of an old beaver's damn or lodge? I'm assuming there's no current beaver activity, but I'm Just curious if any other signs remain.
                        I did not see evidence of beaver activity in my trips to the Madison. But I wasn't searching for evidence of a former lodge or dam so it would be easy to overlook unless obvious. There certainly was no evidence of current beaver activity such as beaver cut trees. There's an album on reddit where I posted examples of the terrain and various damaged trees that are found in that area.
                        Rudy Green[e]
                        whereis.thehomeofBrown.com

                        Comment


                        • #57
                          Forrest mentions old beaver dams in the unedited New Mexico video that Jack posted. There are also multiple hints about beavers in TTOTC that are very subtle ... perhaps aberrations living on the edge. Thanks for the response Rudy.

                          Comment


                          • #58
                            Originally posted by mountain digger

                            Hey Goldi,
                            This isn't actually quite right imo. f told us "Every word is placed in there strategically, and you can’t ignore any of the nouns in that poem.” Since f. hammered home focusing on the wording in the poem over and over, we do have some insight as to which things f said that do have meaning in the chase. As for me, I have yet to catch f not being somewhat truthful in all he has said and I haven't discounted anything Jack has offered about the poem anyway.

                            BTW, I want to again thank you for posting the link to the newest court case pdf. It was funny to read Taylor is a defendant ... but I just don't see there is any meat on those bones for the plaintiff to feast on. Kinda sad to see a new suit come along now given the lack of expediency in our civil justice system, from my perspective of course.
                            You're so right - stick to the poem. All the extraneous noise outside of the poem has messed with our minds for years. This latest court case is pretty far out there - so far out there that I couldn't read through it all. Wonder if Taylor will ever comment publicly now that her name has been dragged into this - twice.

                            Back to the poem - Forrest said don't let logic distract you from the poem. Does that mean we shouldn't be logical but rather think outside the box, which of course he advised against? Was this like some kind of personality test to see who follows instructions like sheep and who can rise above rules and break them to achieve an ultimate goal? When it came to multiple choice in school I invariably picked the wrong answer. My fear of being wrong was crippling. I have since learned to listen to my heart which is why it has been so hard for me to swallow the GPS pill, the Jack pill and now the Nine Mile hole pill. What is my heart saying now? My heart is saying that Forrest would never screw up this royally and leave us with an ending in shambles.

                            Comment


                            • #59
                              After accepting that the treasure was in Wyoming and that Jack was the finder, I started to look at different possibilities for WWWH. IMO the starting place had to be fairly straightforward. If it wasn’t then no one would have ever found the treasure. After careful consideration I decided that Madison Junction made the most sense, but then “no place for the meek” and "worth the cold” seemed to say that you had to cross the river. I asked other searchers who had been to the Madison and most thought this was too dangerous. I tried to come up with a solve on the north side of the river (Harlequin Lake) but I couldn’t get it to work with the poem. Then Vertigo started his thread about Nine Mile Hole. Although I was still skeptical about the river crossing, everything else seemed to fit. It was Rudy’s video that finally convinced me this is the correct area.

                              Comment


                              • #60
                                Originally posted by rimsbrock View Post

                                No, I don't, and I don't mean to be a jerk about it. Rudy and I have discussed this matter already quite a lot; I always enjoyed it and I really respect his commitment. But for me the correct solution is not a matter of believe - It has to be convincing. There is hardly anything convincing about the Madison, which to me means that if this area should turn out to be the correct solve, then Forrest did a terrible job with both construction his poem and communicating it with the public.

                                To me this area seems so wrong, that I consider it more reasonable to believe that Jack changed to an entirely different location in the end. And for the most part, I was looking for hints about this change in his reddit account.
                                Sir, I couldn't agree with you more! I tend to think Jack changed at the very last minute and the post on Oct 1, 2019 with him saying "I don't think Madison Junction is the right answer" is not subterfuge. At that point in time, the search season is basically over and COVID will be in full bloom in March 2020 causing park lockdown. Then as soon as the park opens in early June, Jack finds the chest either at the new location, with some help from Forrest who wanted the chase to be over, or both.

                                I keep going back to Flywater with the first publication reference to the Firehole, plus the unchanged writing in both editions of Forest catching a "brookie" (none on the Madison), plus add to that the possibility that Jack was snooping around Sentinel Creek. Right now I am exploring a solve in the headwaters area...

                                "How special those hours were, spent watching the waters deepen into cobalt as the flow slowly bent around a bank, or the ripples swirl as a brookie took an unsuspecting mayfly."
                                Last edited by FlyFishBrown; 09-16-2021, 05:09 PM.

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X