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WWWH Subtle Clue/s

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  • Other than totem cafe caper. Where else in TTOTC does he talk about hot water?

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    • Originally posted by BritChaser View Post

      Could be. Where does the warm bit come in for you? If water can get through does it halt there?

      This extract feels so strongly like a subtle-clue doesn't it.. it was high up on my list. I couldn't pin it to a poem clue though.. I could only apply it to the real world, like you have.
      If I remember correctly, the water that comes up from underground at the rise is warmer and has greater volume than what goes in at Sinks cave. I took a picture of the signs at both so I will try to find them and post later.

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      • Originally posted by alone View Post
        Other than totem cafe caper. Where else in TTOTC does he talk about hot water?
        Tea with Olga, halts when she dies.

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        • I would go with Gardiner Island for WWWH, the map of the Gallatin National Forest, the rusty slide (the Devil's slide), and Spanish class (for the Spanish Peaks). This combination (plus other stuff) certainly hints at the same general area. Not sure if they are red herrings or hints.

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          • Possible aberrations in TTOTC:

            Forrest mimics the narrative style and demeanor of Holden Caulfield in both Important Literature (while in Borders) and in Totem Cafe Caper. These are departures from the style of the rest of TTOTC. Forrest might not just be pretending to act like Holden; he might be revealing real, honest (if immature) thoughts he was having during these annoying episodes. Why? Possibly because he is trying to illustrate the evolution of his thinking from ignorance to (book/school) learning and from learning to life experience. The ultimate example of this is his coming to terms with death. Note that the poem and chase ARE how he has done that. It's not a large leap of logic that these narrative departures point to coming full circle with Yellowstone as the place where Forrest's awareness (of life and death) took its first steps, and so Yellowstone would also be where the final steps were (to be) taken.

            In Flywater, Forrest mentions places where he fished under the tutelage of his father or guided others for pay. Then in the very next paragraph he refers to "those great places" as "personal secrets to me then". But that doesn't make sense .... he fished at those places with his father and paying clients so how could they have been "personal secrets"? One possibility is that Forrest melded his actual "personal secret" fishing spot(s) in with these others as a disguise of sorts. And perhaps it was from this personal secret fishing spot (to this day) that he imagined closing his tackle box for the last time and then going to that final (resting) place that was special because Peggy was there somewhere waiting for him. I interpret this to mean the "final place" is on the way back to Peggy at the end of a day out fishing: toward West Yellowstone.

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            • Originally posted by BritChaser View Post

              I'd agree with for everything after the starting place. I think he needs to give us that so we can proceed with confidence. Otherwise we might have a type of thing and spend years picking a random one or using some extra information/publication/scrapbook to justify why this warm water must be it..

              After that, I think you're on the journey and it's about helping the clues.

              Again, I'm open minded as this could be bias closing it down like that.
              I don't understand your point. How could you have confidence that a named location is an actual hint about WWWH? Forrest has talked about or referred to dozens of places that could be shoehorned into being at or near a WWWH. The confidence can only come from connecting clue after clue starting with WWWH, and perhaps by finding "evidence" of where Forrest had wanted to die.

              I do agree that something is needed to get us to at least a general area, and maybe the "evidence" is what does that. Very possibly this is simply Yellowstone National Park, which is still large but way smaller than the Rocky Mountains north of Santa Fe. Some of the "evidence" is right there in TToTC, it's pretty hard to deny.

              And in terms of hints about WWWH, Forrest uses "waters" in the Flywater chapter in terms of fishing for trout. So that seems like a pretty solid hint the warm waters might be streams that are relatively warm and that are known for trout, in YNP. That's basically the Firehole, Gibbon and Madison Rivers. Halt? If not sure where, let's consider this being at the start of, or in, a canyon. Lo and. Behold, all three warm waters in YNP flow through canyons!

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              • Originally posted by alone View Post
                Other than totem cafe caper. Where else in TTOTC does he talk about hot water?
                P. 42, Gypsy Magic
                In the spring when the weather was warm, I used to raise the window that was at the side of my bed and put my pillow on the sill.
                I slept that way whenever I could.
                The Katy railroad tracks were about a half-mile from our house and late at night I could hear the steam engines puff and the engineers blow their air horns.
                It was a soothing sound and sometimes I think I can still hear it when the wind is out of the east.

                *When you're at the blaze at noon the engineers of the Cumbres RR blow the steam locomotive's air horns at the end of the lunch break.
                If you're at the blaze when the horns blow you are east of Osier.

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                • Originally posted by Ozzy View Post

                  I had heard that Forrest shared with someone after the chest was retrieved that it was In fact Skippy who had kept Forrest’s secret (two people can keep a secret) and that got my thinking; what if Forrest was referring to Skippy in TTOTC meaning the hints are with Skippy. Only stories about Skippy. That would be an interesting twist to the hints.

                  I mean a washing machine that’s too heavy to fly...well that’s definitely heavy loads. A phot of Skippy hold a Boulder...well that’s a heavy load. Skippy in 90 feet of water with his weights on...again a heavy load. Maybe there are other themes to hint in the Skippy stories. Just been thinking about this last couple days and thought was worth sharing.
                  I wonder whether Forrest feels guilt regarding Skippy's death. Perhaps not connected with its cause, but more about the timing. It's not unusual for someone to say that they wish they had spent more time with someone before that person died. I don't know that there's a "50 club", but somebody apparently made a serious mistake, leading to Skippy's death at such a young age. I hope his death wasn't intentional. All part of my opinion.

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                  • Originally posted by Anna Graham

                    Blow me.
                    That was uncalled/unasked for. I think you are truly better than that -- and can edit your posting(s), by the way.

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                    • Originally posted by colokidd View Post
                      It is impossible for Jack to have solved the poem without understanding who the biddies were.
                      Please pardon my skepticism about this.
                      I don't believe Jack ever correctly and thoroughly solved the poem. But I believe I have.
                      I don't know (or care) who the biddies were. But I think there may be a very tiny little hint in the part about stepping on a crack.

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                      • Originally posted by Old Pilot View Post

                        I wonder whether Forrest feels guilt regarding Skippy's death. Perhaps not connected with its cause, but more about the timing. It's not unusual for someone to say that they wish they had spent more time with someone before that person died. I don't know that there's a "50 club", but somebody apparently made a serious mistake, leading to Skippy's death at such a young age. I hope his death wasn't intentional. All part of my opinion.
                        I’ve wondered this, too. FF hasn’t talked much at all about Skippy as an adult man, except to say he got married, was a plumber (I think I remember that right), and struggled some. You don’t go diving in 90’ of water alone, and I’ve always wondered about that. If he did stay a puer/eternal child, they often die right before or at 50, sometimes by subintentional suicide (you can see this with a number of creative celebrities, too.) I feel affection for Skippy and sad to think of his life ‘as an adult’ being hard.

                        For awhile I had a solve where WWWH was Warm Springs, MT, which is at the mental hospital, because I thought Skippy and/or Donnie might have been treated there (echoes of Holden), and ‘alone in there’ referred to the mind.

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                        • Originally posted by colokidd View Post
                          There wouldn’t be anything wrong about that kind of solve.
                          If it also depends on anagramming, numbers, codes, cyphers, and obscure knowledge, it might be just what the quack ordered.

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                          • Originally posted by alone View Post
                            . . . The poem states take the river down into the canyon . . .
                            What do you think?
                            I think you're wrong about the poem stating that; the word "river" is not in the poem.

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                            • Ok then… Borders… ff could have said any store and went out of his way to ask us to support independent bookstores.. he knew we would jump to see a hint.. so… clumsy, red herring or hint?

                              which obviously leads on to the classic biddies in the border line. And the link to the only other use of Biddies, in no place for biddies chapter.

                              In a previous solve I had two extinct volcanoes, one taller than the other, both on the border line. A good reason for zero population growth right there! The border line even moved/was shaped, like the story talks about the line moving..

                              No place for the older (geological features/people/volcanoes/…)

                              The border’s line talk of older folk not having much time left vs young people.. goes this suggest no place for the meek, the end is ever drawing nigh is one clue together?!

                              what does this one mean for you if it’s one of four clues and is for no place for the meek, the end is ever drawing nigh..



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                              • Originally posted by Old Pilot View Post

                                Please pardon my skepticism about this.
                                I don't believe Jack ever correctly and thoroughly solved the poem. But I believe I have.
                                I don't know (or care) who the biddies were. But I think there may be a very tiny little hint in the part about stepping on a crack.
                                If biddies weren’t important to solving the Poem, why did Forrest write about them?

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