The Statute of Limitations

[Goldilocks]

...in New Mexico, Wyoming (or any of the other search states if you believe the chest wasn't found in Wyoming), could be important in calculating an "anniversary" date. Today is the one year anniversary since the chest was found announcement. Not as important as the one year anniversary of Forrest's death IMO as it may relate to legal issues. What other statutes of limitations other than claims against the Estate might be important? Abandoned property etc. Trying to figure out why Jack still seems to have rights to the chest yet declared he needed money to pay off debts. If he is in fact the rightful owner of the chest, what's the hold up? I'd like to keep this thread about Jack as the Finder and not the possibility that the chest is out there or that someone else found it. I'm aware of all those reasons. How does Jack know someone won't swoop in and present a solid solution with evidence to back it up, and steal his thunder? If someone comes up with a solve before Jack sells the chest, wouldn't the value of the chest decrease? I would think one would need to sell both to get the highest price. There are some very smart people out there as we speak attempting to find the Blaze etc. (see Amy Seeks' quick video from last night) as well as many others who don't publicize they are out there searching.

[Rose Livingstone]

Any solve that comes forward, no matter how brilliant, will simply be dismissed. What ‘evidence’ to back it up could a person provide without the chest itself? And also, if someone were sitting on a perfect solve, why would they Want to ‘steal Thunder’ or ‘decrease the value’ of the chest in Jack’s lawyer’s bottom right hand desk drawer? After witnessing the loonies come out of the plasticwork, who in their right mind would want that level of targeted, negative attention? The worth of the solve can’t be bought or sold. As always, IMO.

[Knowledge]

The solution should be free to all the searchers who just want to see the end of the rainbow they dreamed of.


What Forrest Fenn did should not go down to the bitter lies of people who could not admit Forrest outfoxed them.


I am sure Forrest did not count only on Jack, but people who cared about him to finish what he started.

[colokidd]

Any solve that comes forward, no matter how brilliant, will simply be dismissed. What ‘evidence’ to back it up could a person provide without the chest itself? And also, if someone were sitting on a perfect solve, why would they Want to ‘steal Thunder’ or ‘decrease the value’ of the chest in Jack’s lawyer’s bottom right hand desk drawer? After witnessing the loonies come out of the plasticwork, who in their right mind would want that level of targeted, negative attention? The worth of the solve can’t be bought or sold. As always, IMO.

The worth of the solve is priceless with unlimited potential value. What would a script for a real life “National Treasure” hunt movie be, where the actual million dollar treasure could still be hidden in the Rocky Mountains? With Forrest’s help, I have such a script.

[Sleepless]

A huge reason to wait a year before selling the chest is the tax implication. If the chest was sold within a year of Forrest giving it to him, Jack would have to pay ordinary income tax on the difference between the selling price and the assessed value as of the date he received the chest. However, if he waited until a year had passed, he only has to pay the long term capital gains rate, which will be significantly less and may save him hundreds of thousands of dollars, if not more. In this scenario, June 6 is the key date as it is the day that Jack met with Forrest and Forrest physically gifted the chest to Jack.

[Goldilocks]

Any solve that comes forward, no matter how brilliant, will simply be dismissed. What ‘evidence’ to back it up could a person provide without the chest itself? And also, if someone were sitting on a perfect solve, why would they Want to ‘steal Thunder’ or ‘decrease the value’ of the chest in Jack’s lawyer’s bottom right hand desk drawer? After witnessing the loonies come out of the plasticwork, who in their right mind would want that level of targeted, negative attention? The worth of the solve can’t be bought or sold. As always, IMO.

There is plenty of evidence that could be brought forth...communications with Forrest or attorneys via e-mail, receipts that put the Finder at a time and place, phone records, a signed agreement between Forrest and The Finder etc. There are many many things that could paint a clearer picture to corroborate and validate The Find and Finder. Same goes for the Solver. If I were sitting on a solve I could produce similar things to prove I solved it. I wouldn't want to see Jack sell the chest for a high price if I had proof it was me and not him. No way would I sit on that.

[Rose Livingstone]

There is plenty of evidence that could be brought forth...communications with Forrest or attorneys via e-mail, receipts that put the Finder at a time and place, phone records, a signed agreement between Forrest and The Finder etc. There are many many things that could paint a clearer picture to corroborate and validate The Find and Finder. Same goes for the Solver. If I were sitting on a solve I could produce similar things to prove I solved it. I wouldn't want to see Jack sell the chest for a high price if I had proof it was me and not him. No way would I sit on that.

Ah. So in your scenario, were there to be a solver with a solve who is or isn’t Jack, that that person would have correspondence with F himself? So, that leaves only Jack since I seriously doubt F would’ve corresponded with, let alone confirmed a solve, without evidence of chest possession. Since F confirmed a finder and the chest as being authentic, and the family confirmed identity of Jack as being that finder who met with F, I don’t see that any emails or car rental receipts from anyone else finding ‘an empty hole in the ground where the chest once was’ would make a difference or not be laughed away. If there is an affidavit of sorts separate from the sworn testimony (but saying the exact same thing we’ve already heard), it would probably not be seen until the chest goes for sale and be moot anyway other than provenance.

[voxpops]

“Jarndyce and Jarndyce drones on. This scarecrow of a suit has, in course of time, become so complicated that no man alive knows what it means. The parties to it understand it least, but it has been observed that no two Chancery lawyers can talk about it for five minutes without coming to a total disagreement as to all the premises. Innumerable children have been born into the cause; innumerable young people have married into it; innumerable old people have died out of it. Scores of persons have deliriously found themselves made parties in Jarndyce and Jarndyce without knowing how or why; whole families have inherited legendary hatreds with the suit. The little plaintiff or defendant who was promised a new rocking-horse when Jarndyce and Jarndyce should be settled has grown up, possessed himself of a real horse, and trotted away into the other world. Fair wards of court have faded into mothers and grandmothers; a long procession of Chancellors has come in and gone out; the legion of bills in the suit have been transformed into mere bills of mortality; there are not three Jarndyces left upon the earth perhaps since old Tom Jarndyce in despair blew his brains out at a coffee-house in Chancery Lane; but Jarndyce and Jarndyce still drags its dreary length before the court, perennially hopeless.”

[pws111]

A huge reason to wait a year before selling the chest is the tax implication. If the chest was sold within a year of Forrest giving it to him, Jack would have to pay ordinary income tax on the difference between the selling price and the assessed value as of the date he received the chest. However, if he waited until a year had passed, he only has to pay the long term capital gains rate, which will be significantly less and may save him hundreds of thousands of dollars, if not more. In this scenario, June 6 is the key date as it is the day that Jack met with Forrest and Forrest physically gifted the chest to Jack.

UH, no!!! You need to check the law before making silly declarations. The taxes are owed the second it is found and/or possession is determined.

https://www.fool.com/taxes/2014/03/0...-in-burie.aspx

Treasure trove, to the extent of its value in United States currency, constitutes gross income for the taxable year in which it is reduced to undisputed possession.

https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/26/1.61-14

[Star Shadow]

Shiloh stated that Forrest didn't want the location disclosed. Who knows why things changed, but they did. Respect the family and go in peace. Possibly as voxpops stated above "Jarndyce and Jarndyce drones on.

[Mr Eyes]

Its sad that folk associate value with material wealth. In my view, the spot has much more value being kept secret.

[Spoon]

I have to agree with Rose Livingstone on this one. No matter how good the solution presented, it would be impossible to verify any solution without either the chest and its contents or confirmation from Forrest and no one else. He signed a CA, told Dal that nobody in his family knows what happened and we don't know what his lawyers know, and they likely couldn't say if they did.

But I also agree with the way that Goldilocks began this. How can it be that Jack, who told us he had debts to pay, could not have cashed in on the chest yet? This story that the chest was presented to Forrest and then gifted it back to the finder does not work from a tax perspective. The chest and its contents would have been income at the time it was removed from its hiding place. You can't simply zero that out by presenting the prize back to the prize giver. That doesn't create an offsetting loss, it simply uses up some of your tax-free gift limitation. And since we are past the filing date for taxes, the finder would had to have paid a large sum to the IRS or be incurring large penalties and interest right now. I suppose he could have borrowed against the value of the contents, but that is not the most efficient approach. (And now reading upwards I see that pws111 has already made this salient point. He/she is right on.)

Sleepless makes a good point about capital gains, but if capital gains were the only taxable portion, I would think that any shrewd tax accountant could make a case that set the tax basis of the contents at approximately the ultimate sale price. You could probably even justify that the basis was higher than the sale price due to inefficiency of markets (i.e. bid-asked spread). Many of the items in the chest are not highly liquid with easily identifiable values. The gain over a short period of time should be zero, negative or no more than negligible.

[steve66]

If someone comes up with a solve before Jack sells the chest, wouldn't the value of the chest decrease? I would think one would need to sell both to get the highest price.

I don't think Jack is going to sell the solution. If I were Jack, I would have (whatever my lawyer would say to reassure me) quite a worry that the ownership might be in question, especially if the secret spot was in YNP.

Let's assume on day X a searcher reports that the nook is identified without reasonable doubt and he presents a solid solution and can document the decay of the blaze, human interaction at the nook, etc. If I'm not mistaken I read the department of interior would claim full ownership of the treasure chest, if the chest was in the YNP for ten years.

Then there are two scenarios:
1) Jack sold the treasure chest before day X
2) On day X the treasure chest is still in the possession of Jack

I am not legally qualified, but I think scenario 1) would be better for Jack to avoid a potential total loss. On the other hand, for a buyer, the safeness would be greater in scenario 2) and Jack could - if he wins in court - presumably achieve a higher price. Opinions about this?

[Goldilocks]

“Jarndyce and Jarndyce drones on. This scarecrow of a suit has, in course of time, become so complicated that no man alive knows what it means. The parties to it understand it least, but it has been observed that no two Chancery lawyers can talk about it for five minutes without coming to a total disagreement as to all the premises. Innumerable children have been born into the cause; innumerable young people have married into it; innumerable old people have died out of it. Scores of persons have deliriously found themselves made parties in Jarndyce and Jarndyce without knowing how or why; whole families have inherited legendary hatreds with the suit. The little plaintiff or defendant who was promised a new rocking-horse when Jarndyce and Jarndyce should be settled has grown up, possessed himself of a real horse, and trotted away into the other world. Fair wards of court have faded into mothers and grandmothers; a long procession of Chancellors has come in and gone out; the legion of bills in the suit have been transformed into mere bills of mortality; there are not three Jarndyces left upon the earth perhaps since old Tom Jarndyce in despair blew his brains out at a coffee-house in Chancery Lane; but Jarndyce and Jarndyce still drags its dreary length before the court, perennially hopeless.”

I agree, the current state of this treasure hunt including the long drawn out controversial ending haunts many. The time, energy and resources which were wasted when so many things could have been put to rest long ago is unfortunate. Jack essentially piggy-backed on Dan's book and put Dan in the position of defense because that was a better way to tell his story?? This whole thing makes no sense to me.

[Rose Livingstone]

It’s been established that the chest doesn’t meet the legal definition of ‘treasure trove’- it’s not old enough. Everyone is so bothered by Jack’s bills. Maybe the dude has a job. Or a trust fund or Bitcoin stash that’s making more in interest than the paltry 3.25% or whatever on his student loans. Maybe the item on top of the chest that F didn’t want to talk about is monies for the tax bill.
I believe the only thing holding up the sale of the bronze box is the frivolous lawsuits claiming ownership because looneytunes people with bad solves claim they were ‘hacked’ or ‘owed’. Get rid of the lawsuits and we’ll see progress.