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Small Streams Like the Gibbon -- The Gibbon River

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  • #16
    Originally posted by Blazingwaddles View Post

    Yes true, 500 footers could be Secret Valley creek walkers in general and 200 footers then could be those who went this-away or that-away toward the treasure chest from the creekbed. I don't really like that answer but could technically work. One of the biggest things Secret Valley has going for it beside the name is the complete lack of any sort of human trail at all, that is somewhat unusual for such a large and relatively central area of YNP. Forrest would obviously be very drawn to that. Jack might even be correct that too.many visitors might noticeably trample the place. I have no doubt that Forrest did explore here, probably on one of his youthful outings to fish the Giibbon, which let's not forget is the kind of stream he personally liked the most (narrow and meandering through a meadow). Yet he didn't mention many specific spots on the Gibbon ... sounds like actual Secret spiots where he went alone.

    Heavy load and water high again need to be from the viewpoint of Forrest and then considering "no paddle" but "just" heavy loads and water high is I think representing what a beaver would be doing to this creek, which is felling trees to create a dam and raise the water level. So, if we have a creek with no beaver activity but full of fallen trees where the water level is high as a result of partial damming, then I think that is about as strong a solve to these clues that you can possibly get, ignoring permanence issues.

    And that brings us to WWWH as I think we should also look at it from the viewpoint of Forrest rathet than in isolation (e.g. strictly thermal). In other words, what kind of "warm waters" are important to him, and in what way could they be said to halt? Well there is the obvious one of Ojo Caliente but he didn't go there alone nor is it secret. And besides, everybody has the exact same experience there (the small perfectly warm spot), it is not really personal to Forrest.

    And there is the rub as well about Madison Junction and even more so Old Faithful. Those are probably not warm waters to Forrest personally. I doubt we'd find evidence these places are important to him.

    So what could be? Well, the Norris Geyser Basin does warm the Gibbon River and that makes it good for trout fishing in both early and late season. Here the Gibbon meanders through a couple of meadows and then the character of the stream suddenly changes to boulder strewn rapids and a waterfall as the Gibbon carves a canyon along the rim of the Yellowstone caldera. So basically the water temperature isn't changing as much as the warm (comfortable) nature of the slow lazy current halting and becoming rapid and frothy.

    Yes very similar to the Firehole except less obvious and therefore possibly more Secret and personal to Forrest. Plus the potential HOBs on Gibbon are arguably better. Plus the Gibbon does have a creek once you are in the canyon down whereas Firehole Canyon proper is devoid of creeks, as is Madison Canyon.


    You make some good points. I think there’s a lot to support the Gibbon. It was one of Forrest’s favorite fishing streams.

    Did you consider the creek that comes into the Gibbon at Gibbon Meadows? It originates from a small lake a couple miles up. Water high could be the lake. Neither the creek nor the lake appear to have names. Maybe Forrest waded across the Gibbon near Gibbon Meadows. The obvious hoB is Chocolate Pots, but I’m sure more than a few people thought of that. The 500-footers could have been people walking along the Gibbon on the east side. The 200-footers could have been a few people who crossed the Gibbon and hiked up the creek without going into the forest.

    You are correct about Firehole Canyon being devoid of creeks. But what about Madison Canyon? I'm not sure where Madison Canyon starts. The creek from Harlequin Lake empties into the Madison a couple miles downriver from Madison Junction.
    Last edited by Redneck Girl; 06-02-2021, 11:05 AM.

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    • #17
      Originally posted by Blazingwaddles View Post

      That goes with my point. Her WWWH went from Madison Jct all the way down the Madison River past Hebgen to Quake Lake. So if Jack had mentioned Madison Jct then she would be inclined to think he was searching that way as well. But it's not obvious to me that he would have given out his own WWWH and thus it doesn't follow that the direction he searched in relation to Madison Jct had to be toward the west.

      That said, Shannon must actually know at this point that the hiding location was inside YNP.
      I checked out the Hebgen/Quake Lake area and as far as I can tell, most of the area is covered in Engelmann spruce (ie short needles), with a few isolated lodgepole pines. So I suppose that since all the needles in the find photo were relatively long (ie around 1 1/2 inches), I don't think the TC was hidden in that region, since you would think that even under some of the few lodgepole pines there, shorter spruce needles would find there way to the ground and mix in. Plenty of lodgepole along road north of W Yellowstone, but few heading west to and past Hebgen, as far as I could tell. Thoughts?

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      • #18
        The primary problem I have with a Yellowstone solve is that there are so many people looking and observing all the time. Tourists are looking for wildlife of course, or interesting geologic features, but their eyes are focused into the woods. So for somebody to hike off trail a ways, like even up to half a mile, there is a very good chance someone will notice. Plus rangers might wonder "What's that guy doing there?", and be on alert. Or they might see a parked car, and follow in to make sure the person is not pilfering artifacts, rocks, antlers or whatnot.

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        • #19
          This thread has evolved into a discussion of potential solves involving the Gibbon River, which is fine, but I'm curious abut something more general:

          What do you think about Forrest referring to a river as a stream? The link in the original post is cued up to the moment in the video when he does this.

          Does it support, or perhaps change your interpretation of "your creek" in the poem? Thx

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          • #20
            Originally posted by Vertigo View Post
            This thread has evolved into a discussion of potential solves involving the Gibbon River, which is fine, but I'm curious abut something more general:

            What do you think about Forrest referring to a river as a stream? The link in the original post is cued up to the moment in the video when he does this.

            Does it support, or perhaps change your interpretation of "your creek" in the poem? Thx
            In the video Forrest uses both river and stream when he refers to the Gibbon. I think a stream is smaller than a river and a creek is smaller than a stream. The Gibbon is a smaller river than the Firehole or Madison. Maybe it is appropriate to call it a stream. A creek would then be something smaller than the Gibbon. But who knows? River, stream, and creek are all synonyms. Maybe he's using all three words to refer to the same thing.

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            • #21
              Originally posted by MZ007 View Post

              I checked out the Hebgen/Quake Lake area and as far as I can tell, most of the area is covered in Engelmann spruce (ie short needles), with a few isolated lodgepole pines. So I suppose that since all the needles in the find photo were relatively long (ie around 1 1/2 inches), I don't think the TC was hidden in that region, since you would think that even under some of the few lodgepole pines there, shorter spruce needles would find there way to the ground and mix in. Plenty of lodgepole along road north of W Yellowstone, but few heading west to and past Hebgen, as far as I could tell. Thoughts?
              One of my thoughts is to ignore/disregard the "find photo", and go back to the poem.

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              • #22
                Originally posted by Redneck Girl View Post

                In the video Forrest uses both river and stream when he refers to the Gibbon. I think a stream is smaller than a river and a creek is smaller than a stream. The Gibbon is a smaller river than the Firehole or Madison. Maybe it is appropriate to call it a stream. A creek would then be something smaller than the Gibbon. But who knows? River, stream, and creek are all synonyms. Maybe he's using all three words to refer to the same thing.
                Your thoughts make sense. My takeaway is that Forrest was comfortable using those words interchangeably, without getting caught up in dictionary technicalities.

                For those still trying to solve the poem, the implication is that "your creek" could be almost any channel of flowing water, regardless of its formal designation.

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by Vertigo View Post
                  This thread has evolved into a discussion of potential solves involving the Gibbon River, which is fine, but I'm curious abut something more general:

                  What do you think about Forrest referring to a river as a stream? The link in the original post is cued up to the moment in the video when he does this.

                  Does it support, or perhaps change your interpretation of "your creek" in the poem? Thx
                  The upper Madison River has been called the world's largest chalkstream, and in places it does resemble a (very large) creek. That said,, it has two sizeable tributaries each of which has a number of true creeks flowing into them and each of which is called a "river". So it would be geographically incorrect to refer to the Madison as a creek. And, you can also technically paddle up most of the Madison.

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by Vertigo View Post
                    This thread has evolved into a discussion of potential solves involving the Gibbon River, which is fine, but I'm curious abut something more general:

                    What do you think about Forrest referring to a river as a stream? The link in the original post is cued up to the moment in the video when he does this.

                    Does it support, or perhaps change your interpretation of "your creek" in the poem? Thx
                    I take the word "creek" literally in my solve.

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Originally posted by Redneck Girl View Post

                      In the video Forrest uses both river and stream when he refers to the Gibbon. I think a stream is smaller than a river and a creek is smaller than a stream. The Gibbon is a smaller river than the Firehole or Madison. Maybe it is appropriate to call it a stream. A creek would then be something smaller than the Gibbon. But who knows? River, stream, and creek are all synonyms. Maybe he's using all three words to refer to the same thing.
                      Almost every word is a synonym. Please pardon my skepticism about them being all synonyms (of each other), if that's what you meant.

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                      • #26
                        Originally posted by Vertigo View Post
                        For those still trying to solve the poem, the implication is that "your creek" could be almost any channel of flowing water, regardless of its formal designation.
                        That is not correct. Forrest has been very clear that he looked up the definitions of every word in the poem to make sure he had used them correctly. Of course it could be any of the possible definitions but he didn't simply make stuff up. The Madison could be a stream, but there is no definition of creek that could be applied to it. Why would Forrest be so cavalier with the meaning of geographical clue and then claim that knowledge of geography would be useful???

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                        • #27
                          Originally posted by Blazingwaddles View Post
                          That is not correct. Forrest has been very clear that he looked up the definitions of every word in the poem to make sure he had used them correctly. Of course it could be any of the possible definitions but he didn't simply make stuff up. The Madison could be a stream, but there is no definition of creek that could be applied to it. Why would Forrest be so cavalier with the meaning of geographical clue and then claim that knowledge of geography would be useful???
                          You only quoted the second half of my statement, which removes some relevant context. Here it is, in full:

                          Originally posted by Vertigo View Post
                          Your thoughts make sense. My takeaway is that Forrest was comfortable using those words interchangeably, without getting caught up in dictionary technicalities.

                          For those still trying to solve the poem, the implication is that "your creek" could be almost any channel of flowing water, regardless of its formal designation.
                          In other words, the implication of my takeaway is that "your creek" could be almost any channel of flowing water.

                          Naturally, if your takeaway of the video is different from mine, then the implication on your interpretation of the poem will also be different.

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                          • #28
                            Originally posted by Vertigo View Post

                            You only quoted the second half of my statement, which removes some relevant context. Here it is, in full:

                            In other words, the implication of my takeaway is that "your creek" could be almost any channel of flowing water.

                            Naturally, if your takeaway of the video is different from mine, then the implication on your interpretation of the poem will also be different.
                            It seems to me you are trying hard to fit an untidy solve unto the clues and thus all too willing to twist a very straightforward thing like a simple creek into just about anything, say a creek of tears flowing down the cheek. After all, Forrest did have deep canyons in his hands after washing dishes.

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                            • #29
                              "For me, catching a big fish was okay once in a while, but I like the small streams like the Gibbon -- the Gibbon River."

                              That quote is the best evidence I can find against the 9 mile hole solve. However, I think Forrest may have been like Schwiebert who actually fished on the little creek and in the pond at 9 mile.

                              Do we have any other evidence of a favorite fishing spot on the Gibbon?

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                              • #30
                                Originally posted by Old Pilot View Post

                                I take the word "creek" literally in my solve.
                                Dear Mr. Old Pilot:

                                My friend Ashley who lives in Phoenix (not that it matters) and I are planning a treasure hunting vaca. Ashley is going to fly up and we are meeting at DIA (Denver). We are renting a car and driving to our search area. Well, we know you said you have one good search left in you. So, we are hoping that you will join us. We need the company of a man there in the wilderness,,..for protection. We're both straight but not so good at math. But maybe we could teach you some geometry...like triangles. We're a lot of fun and like to laugh a lot.

                                Do you like fast cars? The old James Bond movies? We think of you like 007. Have you ever worked for the government ? I think not, you don't seem the type to take orders. Ashley and I both like older men! There so much fun to tease, like I did to Cary in "To catch a thief". Were both 36 and so adding us together is 72 which is not a big age difference from 105 (which is how old we figured you are)
                                We like to try new things and stir things up a bit if you know what I mean. Do you think you could handle us both? We are a little bit afraid that you might have a heart attack out there in the wilderness and wondered what we would do with a stiff in the back of our car.

                                That reminds me, you'll have to bring your own tent or share ours. We like to have a good campfire at night and tell ghost stories. I promise that if you'll come, ever morning at sunrise when the birds wake you up, you will arise anew, feeling like a new man; born again. Please come with us, won't you? At night, you'll see the canopy of stars Forrest spoke so fondly of, and you might get a brief glimpse of the moon through the red willows when I bathe down at the creek. That super cold water does strange things to body parts. Some parts perk up in a tight nubbin and other parts just shrink up to almost nothing. Strange isn't it?

                                Oh, please say that you'll come.. won't. you? Gosh, I hope I haven't been too forward...

                                But for us;
                                Grace
                                Last edited by Grace; 06-02-2021, 11:31 PM.

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