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Any English majors here? (about "canyon down")

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  • Any English majors here? (about "canyon down")

    Jack says this is about a "close read" of the poem. It was "made for an English major".

    OK. Can I possibly get some expertise/opinions on "And take it in the canyon down,"? Let's say "it" is a pronoun who's antecedent is "your journey". I don't see an antecedent actually established in the poem. Shouldn't there be an antecedent? If there is one, what is it?

    So let's use "your journey" and the sentence becomes "And take your journey in the canyon down". OK so is down an adjective? or an adverb? or something else?

    Could it be an adjective that describes which canyon? Anything wrong with that? What if it said "And take your journey in the canyon downstream? Would downstream tell us which canyon? The one downstream? Or would it be an adverb modifying "take", meaning go downstream in the canyon? Could it be either? I'm asking from a "close read"/English perspective.

    You of course don't need to be an English major to weigh in. Thanks in advance to anyone willing to give an opinion.

  • #2
    Canyon could be used to describe a special kind of down...
    „It‘s almost impossible to carry the torch of truth through a crowd without singeing somebody‘s beard.“
    G. C. Lichtenberg

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    • #3
      Precisely. You take your journey down to the deepest reaches of hell within. Or not quite down some gulch or small canyon out there somewhere... or both?

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      • #4
        Maybe a french major too....

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        • #5
          I would say an art Major made this hunt and imagination was the key.

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          • #6
            I always viewed “it” as what you begin at wwwh. Which to me was a road. So if you correctly identify the antecedent being a road, it fits.

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            • #7
              Originally posted by wwwamericana View Post
              Maybe a french major too....
              That's really funny!

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              • #8
                Originally posted by Must Listengood View Post
                .
                Let's say "it" is a pronoun who's antecedent is "your journey". I don't see an antecedent actually established in the poem.
                "Your flight". You begin 'it' at the 1st clue, then "take it in" (a course change) into the canyon, south.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by Must Listengood View Post
                  Jack says this is about a "close read" of the poem. It was "made for an English major".

                  OK. Can I possibly get some expertise/opinions on "And take it in the canyon down,"? Let's say "it" is a pronoun who's antecedent is "your journey". I don't see an antecedent actually established in the poem. Shouldn't there be an antecedent? If there is one, what is it?

                  So let's use "your journey" and the sentence becomes "And take your journey in the canyon down". OK so is down an adjective? or an adverb? or something else?

                  Could it be an adjective that describes which canyon? Anything wrong with that? What if it said "And take your journey in the canyon downstream? Would downstream tell us which canyon? The one downstream? Or would it be an adverb modifying "take", meaning go downstream in the canyon? Could it be either? I'm asking from a "close read"/English perspective.

                  You of course don't need to be an English major to weigh in. Thanks in advance to anyone willing to give an opinion.
                  The solver of the poem is not likely to be an English major. Do you think Forrest Fenn was one? He had a pretty good command of the English Language (not to mention psychology -- just like Jesus).

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Must Listengood View Post
                    Jack says this is about a "close read" of the poem. It was "made for an English major".

                    OK. Can I possibly get some expertise/opinions on "And take it in the canyon down,"? Let's say "it" is a pronoun who's antecedent is "your journey". I don't see an antecedent actually established in the poem. Shouldn't there be an antecedent? If there is one, what is it?

                    So let's use "your journey" and the sentence becomes "And take your journey in the canyon down". OK so is down an adjective? or an adverb? or something else?

                    Could it be an adjective that describes which canyon? Anything wrong with that? What if it said "And take your journey in the canyon downstream? Would downstream tell us which canyon? The one downstream? Or would it be an adverb modifying "take", meaning go downstream in the canyon? Could it be either? I'm asking from a "close read"/English perspective.

                    You of course don't need to be an English major to weigh in. Thanks in advance to anyone willing to give an opinion.
                    Thank you for appreciating comments from those that aren't English majors, cuz it was probably my worst subject in school!

                    When I think of "canyon down", many things come to mind relating to that part of the poem. To me, "down" could mean in a southerly direction on a map, downstream or descending, sad or depressed (any canyons out there feeling down?), or a canyon containing it's first plumage of feathers....ya, not likely that one, but could be cute.

                    "Canyon" is pretty much what it is, a canyon, but it may not necessarily have an active river continually carving it out, or be named on a map with "canyon" on it.

                    I appreciate you letting us weigh in on this subject without being English majors. In that case, I weigh around 3-6 oz any given part of the day. The weight difference is depending on a pre or post visit to the 'can' yon down there.....

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                    • #11
                      Must Listengood he actually said, "it’s based on a close read of a text". "A text" doesn't necessarily mean "the poem".

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                      • #12
                        That's a way to tell them Moody! Talk about setting the record straight.

                        Oh, by the way. What did "yon" mean, again.

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                        • #13
                          When I read the poem, I come up with lots of solutions but one that I always come back to are Honeymoon instructions.

                          I'm too young to know much about Jackie Gleason, maybe some of you old timers can ponder this and see if you can marry the clues to a map. I actually have a location or 2 for this solve..

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                          • #14
                            IMO the poem needs to be read as such...a poem.
                            Canon.. literary canon that Forrest dislikes
                            Canon ... old slide down fire escape (most of these fire escapes were tubes) Forrest slid to freedom from class he didn't like
                            Canyon street, was fired from his paper route here
                            Canyon, shot the mountain lion and always regretted it
                            Forrest and Donny followed the stream until it got narrower and narrower, deeper and deeper until it developed vertical sides. Nothing could get through but water
                            Black Abyss , when Forrest got cancer
                            Ever mention of canyon seems to be started with "bad" but turns to happy once he passes through

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Sirius B
                              English teacher here. "it" in this case is an "object pronoun". It is ambiguous, but I believe it refers to your own "personal chase". It also has an antecedent in "begin it", which I believe also refers to the same notion (i.e.: Chase=It). Since both uses of "it" appear in the same sentence, two definitions for an object pronoun like "it" would be incorrect standard English grammar, not something I'd expect from years of craftsmanship by a professional author.

                              The sentence has an implied subject: "You". 1)(You) 2)take 3)it are the 1)Subject 2)Predicate and 3)Object of the sentence. The usage of "it" follows the objective case. For example, the English object pronoun "me" is found in "They see me", "He's giving me my book", and "Sit with me"; this usage contrasts with subject pronouns as in "I see them," "I am getting my book," and "I am sitting here." In few words: "I" can not be an object pronoun (he gave the book to I?) and me is not a subject pronoun ("Me like to read"). This rule carries over into compound subjects and objects: e.g.: (He and I) were confused by Forrest. Forrest showed (Dale and me) the Bright Spot where he hid the secret.

                              "In the Canyon Down" is a prepositional phrase. Prepositional phrases describe location, direction, condition, or orientation. "Down" modifies "Canyon". As is the case with all prepositional phrases, "In the Canyon" means what it says. Down must refer to Canyon, and therefore "Take it in the canyon down" can mean multiple things, insofar as it modifies the meaning of Canyon. So either "go to the lowest level of the canyon", or simply "go downstream".

                              I also taught other languages. In English, standard grammar dictates Subject Verb Object in that order. Spanish and French, by contrast, are Subject, Object, Verb. Ahora (Yo) lo entiendo. Maintenant je le comprends.
                              Interesting.
                              So the preposition is "in the canyon down" and down is an adjective modifying canyon, telling us which canyon, correct? If down is an adverb, it would not be part of the preposition and would modify the verb "take" - take it how - take it down.

                              So there are two ways that I could interpret the sentence:
                              Take it down in the canyon
                              OR
                              Take it in the canyon that is down

                              Since you are saying down modifies canyon, then the second one would be the standard way to interpret the sentence.

                              Is that right? Or could it be either way and still be considered proper.

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