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The Revised Forensic Results, Including The Amped Software Diagnoses.

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  • The Revised Forensic Results, Including The Amped Software Diagnoses.

    Since the other threads were closed and they will quickly fade to the background, here are the revised results that can be downloaded. You do not need permission to download, as the entire forensic results were intended for all to see. This also gives an area for comments.
    There are 36 pages that many people have not seen with the Amped software. I will be comparing and sharing these results against the picture by picture (easy to understand) Amped Authenticate software manual.
    https://spaces.hightail.com/space/03DF1sHJPX
    A good forger attempts to deceive the naked human eye.
    It's part of the challenge in the game he plays.

    Deceiving science when it is done thru guidelines and in expert hands is however, practically impossible!"

  • #2
    Ive read the amended report. Its not Oh's words. And there is without a doubt some tomfoolery with the picture of Fenn and the bracelet around his wrist, as stated in the report. What everyone should have taken a breath on was thinking there would be some definitive conclusion. These experts rarely want to say anything is 100%. And if its not 100% or 0% almost always falls in the "inconclusive" category.

    The first report did not look good for the folk who have shouted "photoshop!". The second report doesnt look good for those who jumped the gun and said " see i told you so, no photoshop"

    Comment


    • #3
      Cleaned up, just like the report is it seems. I am going to catch up this weekend on the new report and such, for now, I just gave everyone a one week break from the trolling nonsense. And the next time it will be permanent. I am done playing around, my time is valuable and 19 different warnings is enough, don’t have think?
      “Positivity triumphs over negativity” - famous quote by the famous Cowlazars 2018

      Comment


      • #4
        There is an area I would like to point out. This is one of many I have ran into while studying the report.

        This is the fusion map filter and it explains in easy terms what this is about. If something has been photoshopped onto an image, the algorithm will gather the compression and draw it out.
        The red you are seeing below is the photoshopped in poster that is on the left. Note that there is another image above this umbrella poster and it is not visible. This image was not photoshopped in.


        https://www.hintofriches.com/core/im...EAAAICRAEAOw==

        The image with Forrest holding the scissors is the fenn_h photo. The Amped Authenticate fusion map filter is shown below, which is the same test as the one above. The one above is part of the Amped Authenticate users manual. This morning I emailed Michael Primeau about a concern I had and it was about this particular test. It was the only question I had about his test.

        My question:
        The manual presents colors as areas manipulated and outputs a binarized map.
        In your results, this was read as a warning and presents the fenn_h photo as if it is almost entirely manipulated. This one I can’t understand. Can you aid me with this? This is the only question I have.
        (along with my question I had sent these two images you are viewing)

        This is his response:
        Mr. Peternell,

        I have completed the investigation and provided my report. I have officially precluded myself from further investigation and cannot comment any further at this time.
        -----------------------

        I was being cordial and asked a simple question, but he did not want to answer it. Maybe it was because I was researching his work.
        Here are the results of the fenn-h photo. Note it reads warning. The software told Michael that there was a problem with this image, but Michael did not mention this in his conclusion summary.
        I am doing a bit more research on this test, but usually the user manuals don't lie. Remember, red means photoshopped. It is possible that there was so many compressed areas that the algorithm blotched almost the entire photo. The question is, why wouldn't Michael Primeau just answer me? It is a logical question after all. I am not allowed to ask any questions about an area I don't understand? I do not feel this is right.
        Also note that this same test was taken out of the chest photo results and reads not available.
        Click image for larger version  Name:	Amped3.JPG Views:	0 Size:	151.0 KB ID:	278051
        Last edited by OH!!; 04-22-2021, 05:51 PM.
        A good forger attempts to deceive the naked human eye.
        It's part of the challenge in the game he plays.

        Deceiving science when it is done thru guidelines and in expert hands is however, practically impossible!"

        Comment


        • #5
          Perhaps I lack the knowledge to understand or the patience to sift through this, but I just see a bunch of gobbledy-gook in this report. So a few questions:

          1. Was the majority of the exercise more or less compromised/thwarted because the images provided are, effectively, photos of photos?
          2. Where would one look to see the part about the bracelet being manipulated? Did that go through a different process than the rest?
          3. Was the same process which identified manipulation of the bracelet employed for evaluating the stick and the key in the chest? If not, why not, and if so, what if anything was found?

          Thank you in advance.

          Comment


          • #6
            sad that despite due diligence and best intentions....this is the goomer we got......perhaps the other professional that Kpro talked with can elaborate further.

            Comment


            • #7
              People are mixing things up. To be clear, the expert analyzed three images:

              1. 1_vZeZ0NhkfseE5JztMQFq6w.png -- Forrest wearing the turquoise beaded bracelet
              2. fenn_h.jpg -- Jack and Forrest sitting together, with Fenn holding the scissors
              3. image003.png -- The open chest with the stick and key inside

              fenn_h.jpg is the one that displayed blocking artifacts over a "bracelet in lower right corner" (pg 14 of report).

              That is referring to the gold DRAGON bracelet, NOT the turquoise beaded bracelet.

              Note that blocking artifacts are an indication of recompression. All 3 images were found to contain some evidence of recompression. This does not point to anything sinister; it just means the images are not originals.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Vertigo View Post
                People are mixing things up. To be clear, the expert analyzed three images:

                1. 1_vZeZ0NhkfseE5JztMQFq6w.png -- Forrest wearing the turquoise beaded bracelet
                2. fenn_h.jpg -- Jack and Forrest sitting together, with Fenn holding the scissors
                3. image003.png -- The open chest with the stick and key inside

                fenn_h.jpg is the one that displayed blocking artifacts over a "bracelet in lower right corner" (pg 14 of report).

                That is referring to the gold DRAGON bracelet, NOT the turquoise beaded bracelet.

                Note that blocking artifacts are an indication of recompression. All 3 images were found to contain some evidence of recompression. This does not point to anything sinister; it just means the images are not originals.
                No, it was Forrest Fenn's wrist that had the manipulation markings in photo 1_vZeZ0NhkfseE5JztMQFq6w.png The bracelet is not mentioned. It is this area.
                The white blotch at the bracelet edge and you can see the it passes the bracelet edge on the left side where flesh is suppose to be. This is the smallest of the 6 aberrations.
                Click image for larger version

Name:	wrist.jpg
Views:	821
Size:	81.9 KB
ID:	278112
                Last edited by OH!!; 04-22-2021, 09:37 PM.
                A good forger attempts to deceive the naked human eye.
                It's part of the challenge in the game he plays.

                Deceiving science when it is done thru guidelines and in expert hands is however, practically impossible!"

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Spoon View Post
                  Perhaps I lack the knowledge to understand or the patience to sift through this, but I just see a bunch of gobbledy-gook in this report. So a few questions:

                  1. Was the majority of the exercise more or less compromised/thwarted because the images provided are, effectively, photos of photos?
                  2. Where would one look to see the part about the bracelet being manipulated? Did that go through a different process than the rest?
                  3. Was the same process which identified manipulation of the bracelet employed for evaluating the stick and the key in the chest? If not, why not, and if so, what if anything was found?

                  Thank you in advance.
                  1. They are screenshots of the photo. A person can dial into a certain area in a screenshot and find the altered compression, this is why the photos all read altered compression. But proving this is difficult.
                  2. I showed the bracelet in the prior post. No it did not go thru a different process. If the Amped software is dialed in correctly, it can find more than it did on a screenshot. A person would have to have patience for this, but Michael Primeau didn't have time for anything. He was way to busy to take his time.
                  3. Question 3 holds many answers, because some test that were done on one image, was not done on the other image. Or it was removed. There are two formats in the photos, PNG & JPEG. They will not have the same test ran, but this is not the case. It is both of the PNG's that do not hold the same test results. This is what I have been studying. I cannot fully answer this yet.

                  Max23 has access to this Amped Authenticate software. I think? I could be wrong. I wish he would come aboard and aid with some answers. It would clear up many questions we have. I want to make certain what I am finding can be confirmed, and if I am correct.
                  A good forger attempts to deceive the naked human eye.
                  It's part of the challenge in the game he plays.

                  Deceiving science when it is done thru guidelines and in expert hands is however, practically impossible!"

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by OH!! View Post
                    There is an area I would like to point out. This is one of many I have ran into while studying the report.

                    This is the fusion map filter and it explains in easy terms what this is about. If something has been photoshopped onto an image, the algorithm will gather the compression and draw it out.
                    The red you are seeing below is the photoshopped in poster that is on the left. Note that there is another image above this umbrella poster and it is not visible. This image was not photoshopped in.


                    https://www.hintofriches.com/core/im...EAAAICRAEAOw==

                    The image with Forrest holding the scissors is the fenn_h photo. The Amped Authenticate fusion map filter is shown below, which is the same test as the one above. The one above is part of the Amped Authenticate users manual. This morning I emailed Michael Primeau about a concern I had and it was about this particular test. It was the only question I had about his test.

                    My question:
                    The manual presents colors as areas manipulated and outputs a binarized map.
                    In your results, this was read as a warning and presents the fenn_h photo as if it is almost entirely manipulated. This one I can’t understand. Can you aid me with this? This is the only question I have.
                    (along with my question I had sent these two images you are viewing)

                    This is his response:
                    Mr. Peternell,

                    I have completed the investigation and provided my report. I have officially precluded myself from further investigation and cannot comment any further at this time.
                    -----------------------

                    I was being cordial and asked a simple question, but he did not want to answer it. Maybe it was because I was researching his work.
                    Here are the results of the fenn-h photo. Note it reads warning. The software told Michael that there was a problem with this image, but Michael did not mention this in his conclusion summary.
                    I am doing a bit more research on this test, but usually the user manuals don't lie. Remember, red means photoshopped. It is possible that there was so many compressed areas that the algorithm blotched almost the entire photo. The question is, why wouldn't Michael Primeau just answer me? It is a logical question after all. I am not allowed to ask any questions about an area I don't understand? I do not feel this is right.
                    Also note that this same test was taken out of the chest photo results and reads not available.
                    Click image for larger version Name:	Amped3.JPG Views:	0 Size:	151.0 KB ID:	278051
                    @OH!

                    I’m not an expert by any means, but EVERY single time I put this pic into fotoforensics, it comes up with the same anomaly, over and over again. I’ve tested other pics, but none of them do this type of thing, ever!
                    Attached Files

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      OH!! Thanks for sharing this information and providing further explanation. Looking forward to hearing more and seeing some more information about the stuff you’re finding. These are great questions that are being raised.
                      the questions that must be asked - that is what’s important. Because we live in the world our questions create.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by OH!! View Post
                        No, it was Forrest Fenn's wrist that had the manipulation markings in photo 1_vZeZ0NhkfseE5JztMQFq6w.png
                        Hi all, I was referring to this, from Figure 7: fenn_h.jpg Analysis Testing Results (pg 13-14 of the expert's report)

                        Click image for larger version

Name:	BlockingArtifacts.jpg
Views:	785
Size:	62.6 KB
ID:	278124

                        fenn_h.jpg is the photo with Forrest holding the scissors. The "bracelet in lower right corner" of that photo is the DRAGON bracelet.

                        Just pointing this out so that people don't mistakenly attribute the above statement to the turquoise bracelet.

                        Cheers

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Vertigo View Post

                          Hi all, I was referring to this, from Figure 7: fenn_h.jpg Analysis Testing Results (pg 13-14 of the expert's report)

                          Click image for larger version

Name:	BlockingArtifacts.jpg
Views:	785
Size:	62.6 KB
ID:	278124

                          fenn_h.jpg is the photo with Forrest holding the scissors. The "bracelet in lower right corner" of that photo is the DRAGON bracelet.

                          Just pointing this out so that people don't mistakenly attribute the above statement to the turquoise bracelet.

                          Cheers
                          Awe, two different aspects. Makes sense.
                          A good forger attempts to deceive the naked human eye.
                          It's part of the challenge in the game he plays.

                          Deceiving science when it is done thru guidelines and in expert hands is however, practically impossible!"

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            When I spoke to Michael over the phone, I made certain that he understood that we also need a visual inspection. This was the most important inspection of all. My guidelines were based upon the Amped Authenticate software, as I had shared what to expect in a thread, noting this software. The software has 37 tests that it runs the photo thru. We were given 23.

                            When I emailed Michael about why he didn't give a visual inspection, these were his words:

                            In regards to the image comparison analysis mentioned below. The initial scope of work included the authentication of two images using digital integrity testing for tampering detection, not image comparative analysis. Although I understand this was an expectation to provide a forensic image comparison investigation, it was not clearly communicated that this was a desired testing to be included in the report. It was my understanding the third image was provided as reference, but nothing more. I would be happy to perform a formal image comparison analysis between the evidence image and the third used as reference. However these types of investigations are timely in order to process in accordance with the best practices.

                            He is telling us that he didn't have enough time, and he obviously did not do this. The first test of the Amped software reads this: Visual Inspection. To be checked. He did not check this on any photo.
                            Click image for larger version  Name:	visual.JPG Views:	0 Size:	100.8 KB ID:	278189

                            If you are going to use this type of software, you need to follow the guidelines that the software gives you, or the process is incomplete.

                            My visual inspection has caught part of Forrest Fenn's lip missing and the nose with a piece cut out. This can be seen without the story behind each photo, which the story brings out more anomalies.
                            Click image for larger version  Name:	lip-missing.jpg Views:	0 Size:	81.9 KB ID:	278190
                            Digital cameras do not hide lips, so this manipulation to hide something is obvious.

                            This could have been compared to the other photo he was given to inspect and he would of found it.
                            It is obvious when looking to the other photo. Especially the nose.
                            Click image for larger version  Name:	nose.jpg Views:	0 Size:	48.2 KB ID:	278192
                            I will be revealing the test that were taken out of the inspection process as we move forward.
                            Last edited by OH!!; 04-23-2021, 08:33 AM.
                            A good forger attempts to deceive the naked human eye.
                            It's part of the challenge in the game he plays.

                            Deceiving science when it is done thru guidelines and in expert hands is however, practically impossible!"

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by OH!! View Post
                              Since the other threads were closed and they will quickly fade to the background, here are the revised results that can be downloaded. You do not need permission to download, as the entire forensic results were intended for all to see. This also gives an area for comments.
                              There are 36 pages that many people have not seen with the Amped software. I will be comparing and sharing these results against the picture by picture (easy to understand) Amped Authenticate software manual.
                              https://spaces.hightail.com/space/03DF1sHJPX
                              Great job OH! keep those Forensic dudes on their toes. Keep playing hardball with them!!! The Hillbealy

                              Comment

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