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  • #46
    Originally posted by Zapster View Post

    Hi Old Pilot: I'm not 100% sure, but I'm guessing HMA is referring to this:
    Click image for larger version

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    • #47
      Originally posted by Old Pilot View Post

      No, I don't see why. But thank you for the photos and information.
      You “ don’t see why””

      In this statement old pilot is telling you have the wrong location.

      Remember “ indecision is the key”
      Billy 1f

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      • #48
        Originally posted by Redneck Girl View Post
        If we combine what Forrest said with what jack said, I think we can come up with some idea of the distance Forrest walked from the car to the treasure location.

        Forrest said he walked less than a few miles but he never said if this was one-way, round trip, 3 legs of the trip, or both round trips combined. Assuming that “a few” means 3, that puts the distance walked from the car to the chest location as somewhere between 0 and 3 miles.

        Jack was more specific. He didn’t say Forrest walked less than a few miles. He specifically said Forrest walked a few miles. Again Jack never said if this was one leg of the trip, 2 legs, 3 legs, or 4 legs. If “a few miles” was one-way then that contradicts what Forrest said about walking less than a few miles. That means Jack was either referring to the distance Forrest walked for 2 legs, 3 legs, or 4 legs of the trip. This puts the distance walked from the car to the treasure between 0.75 and 1.5 miles.
        The definition of "few" is more than one. As opposed to several,.which Forrest went out of his way to explain is more than two. 1.000004 is more than one. Therefore, Forrest could have walked .250001 miles each way from the car to the hiding spot.

        Another possibility is the hiding spot is easier to reach by going offtrail near the beginning (down the hill more directly) but then for the return trip it is.easier to take a flatter course by joining the trail further from the start. In other words, the outbound trip is steeper and shorter while the return trip is longer but not as steep.

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        • #49
          Originally posted by Blazingwaddles View Post

          The definition of "few" is more than one. As opposed to several,.which Forrest went out of his way to explain is more than two. 1.000004 is more than one. Therefore, Forrest could have walked .250001 miles each way from the car to the hiding spot.

          Another possibility is the hiding spot is easier to reach by going offtrail near the beginning (down the hill more directly) but then for the return trip it is.easier to take a flatter course by joining the trail further from the start. In other words, the outbound trip is steeper and shorter while the return trip is longer but not as steep.
          I only took “a few” to mean 3 as an example. Using the same reasoning and taking “a few” to be something between 1 and 4, gives a range of 0.25 - 2.0 miles as the distance Forrest walked from his car to the hidey spot.

          Someone asked Forrest if he took the same route on the way back and he said yes.

          IMO when Forrest said he walked less than a few miles, he was most likely referring to either the distance walked from the car to the hidey spot or the total distance he walked in two trips. I think Jack’s answer rules out the distance walked from the car to the hidey spot. That means Forrest was most likely referring to the total distance he walked in two trips. I recall that somewhere Forrest said “a few” is more than 2 but not many more. That would seem to put it in the 2-3 mile range. If this is the total distance Forrest walked in two trips that means the distance walked from the car to the hidey spot was between 0.5 and 0.75 miles.

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          • #50
            Originally posted by Redneck Girl View Post

            I only took “a few” to mean 3 as an example. Using the same reasoning and taking “a few” to be something between 1 and 4, gives a range of 0.25 - 2.0 miles as the distance Forrest walked from his car to the hidey spot.

            Someone asked Forrest if he took the same route on the way back and he said yes.

            IMO when Forrest said he walked less than a few miles, he was most likely referring to either the distance walked from the car to the hidey spot or the total distance he walked in two trips. I think Jack’s answer rules out the distance walked from the car to the hidey spot. That means Forrest was most likely referring to the total distance he walked in two trips. I recall that somewhere Forrest said “a few” is more than 2 but not many more. That would seem to put it in the 2-3 mile range. If this is the total distance Forrest walked in two trips that means the distance walked from the car to the hidey spot was between 0.5 and 0.75 miles.
            Yes probably it's the same route back on the trail itself based on Forrest's answer but I don't want to completely rule out the idea of some type of loop around terrain obstacles while "in there" meaning offtrail.

            I know Forresf defined "several" as being more than 2 but I don't recall where he said "few" in terms of an interger. In the following answer he says he looked up "few" and one definition is "scant". No doubt he would have also seen the definition of "more than one but not many". Note also the question asks the one-way distance to the hiding spot, and Forrest answering "less than a few miles" could technically mean something ridiculously short like 10 feet. In other words, it's a non-answer answer.

            https://mysteriouswritings.com/featu...ng-in-circles/

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            • #51
              Originally posted by Blazingwaddles View Post

              Yes probably it's the same route back on the trail itself based on Forrest's answer but I don't want to completely rule out the idea of some type of loop around terrain obstacles while "in there" meaning offtrail.

              I know Forresf defined "several" as being more than 2 but I don't recall where he said "few" in terms of an interger. In the following answer he says he looked up "few" and one definition is "scant". No doubt he would have also seen the definition of "more than one but not many". Note also the question asks the one-way distance to the hiding spot, and Forrest answering "less than a few miles" could technically mean something ridiculously short like 10 feet. In other words, it's a non-answer answer.

              https://mysteriouswritings.com/featu...ng-in-circles/
              You are right. He said several was more than 2.
              I agree. Based on what Forrest told us he could have walked anywhere from 0 feet to 4 miles from where he parked to where he hid the treasure. I think common sense tells us that the distance was probably less than 2 miles.
              Based on what Jack told us we know that Forrest walked at least a quarter mile from where he parked to the hidey spot.
              Last edited by Redneck Girl; 03-31-2021, 04:00 PM.

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              • #52
                Originally posted by Redneck Girl View Post

                You are right. He said several was more than 2.
                I agree. Based on what Forrest said told us he could have walked anywhere from 0 feet to 4 miles from where he parked to where he hid the treasure. I think common sense tells us that the distance was probably less than 2 miles.
                Based on what Jack told us we know that Forrest walked at least a quarter mile from where he parked to the hidey spot.
                Yup I think that is a very good bracketing of the distance. My new favorite solve in YNP is up to about a mile walk from the car but it's a pretty hard mile. Not because of elevation but because you have to travel along a creek bed (more mud than rock) and over a lot of fallen logs. Slow going but not dangerous. I say "up to a mile" because it's not apparent from Google Earth how far you have to go to first encounter the water high. You do run into heavy loads in the form of logs strewn across the creek pretty early on, and then constantly ("ever drawing nigh" and "just heavy loads" would surely be going through your mind traversing this terrain).

                It's the Secret Valley solve. One of a few spots anywhere in Yellowstone where you have a strong WWWH candidate in the form of a geyser -- or even a hot spring, though I don't like how we have to twist a constantly running water source to consider its warm waters to be literally halting -- that is contiguous to a true canyon in which you take it down. This does not occur along the Firehole (canyon) as hard as I tried to make it work.

                And if you want to think about a secret spot ("my secret where") in the most special place to Forrest, the place where his heart is (YNP), there is none more stupidly and simply obvious than Secret Valley. I'm pretty sure if you ask a 6 year old to point out "the secret spot" on a (good) map of YNP, this would be the most common answer. It works for the same reason Forrest named a hotel for the type of people who might stay there ("The Dude"), or the lady who bakes pies like grandma ("Grandma"), or the buffalo named after the guy named after the buffalo ("Cody"). Funny and in a way clever because it is utterly simple and straightforward.

                Dal and others searched here so that could be the 200 foot searchers. Cynthia poked around the "put in" but never actually went up the creek for some odd reason.. And even though there is no actual trail, the backcountry trip to Secret Valley and its Hot Springs is made by more than a few YNP visitors every year. But not many. On any given day, possibly none.

                The valley does open up eventually (about a mile in) and reveal a stereotypical Forrest type "special" view .... pines, sagebrush, animals and flowers in lush meadows, mountains on all sides making it isolated and secluded, etc. Certainly not as majestic as THE Secluded Valley but along those same lines.

                And I think you'd have to be dedicated and a bit tired walking a mile up this creek. My guess it would take more than an hour each way casually picking your way over the fallen logs and stopping to rest every few minutes, this being a form of walking that some might not consider walking. And I think you'd have to try really really hard to avoid getting wet and cold (the feet at least).

                So if the actual hiding spot isn't in Secret Valley, it is still going to be a very very good template for the real location.

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                • #53
                  Originally posted by Blazingwaddles View Post

                  Yup I think that is a very good bracketing of the distance. My new favorite solve in YNP is up to about a mile walk from the car but it's a pretty hard mile. Not because of elevation but because you have to travel along a creek bed (more mud than rock) and over a lot of fallen logs. Slow going but not dangerous. I say "up to a mile" because it's not apparent from Google Earth how far you have to go to first encounter the water high. You do run into heavy loads in the form of logs strewn across the creek pretty early on, and then constantly ("ever drawing nigh" and "just heavy loads" would surely be going through your mind traversing this terrain).

                  It's the Secret Valley solve. One of a few spots anywhere in Yellowstone where you have a strong WWWH candidate in the form of a geyser -- or even a hot spring, though I don't like how we have to twist a constantly running water source to consider its warm waters to be literally halting -- that is contiguous to a true canyon in which you take it down. This does not occur along the Firehole (canyon) as hard as I tried to make it work.

                  And if you want to think about a secret spot ("my secret where") in the most special place to Forrest, the place where his heart is (YNP), there is none more stupidly and simply obvious than Secret Valley. I'm pretty sure if you ask a 6 year old to point out "the secret spot" on a (good) map of YNP, this would be the most common answer. It works for the same reason Forrest named a hotel for the type of people who might stay there ("The Dude"), or the lady who bakes pies like grandma ("Grandma"), or the buffalo named after the guy named after the buffalo ("Cody"). Funny and in a way clever because it is utterly simple and straightforward.

                  Dal and others searched here so that could be the 200 foot searchers. Cynthia poked around the "put in" but never actually went up the creek for some odd reason.. And even though there is no actual trail, the backcountry trip to Secret Valley and its Hot Springs is made by more than a few YNP visitors every year. But not many. On any given day, possibly none.

                  The valley does open up eventually (about a mile in) and reveal a stereotypical Forrest type "special" view .... pines, sagebrush, animals and flowers in lush meadows, mountains on all sides making it isolated and secluded, etc. Certainly not as majestic as THE Secluded Valley but along those same lines.

                  And I think you'd have to be dedicated and a bit tired walking a mile up this creek. My guess it would take more than an hour each way casually picking your way over the fallen logs and stopping to rest every few minutes, this being a form of walking that some might not consider walking. And I think you'd have to try really really hard to avoid getting wet and cold (the feet at least).

                  So if the actual hiding spot isn't in Secret Valley, it is still going to be a very very good template for the real location.
                  I think this looks like an excellent location. The treasure could have been hidden in the forest on either side of the creek. The 500-footers might have been people who walked up the creek.

                  As I recall the map you posted showed this area as having the fewest grizzlies in all of YNP. If you could come up with a reasonable idea for hoB then I would be convinced.

                  I think this quote from Forrest is important:
                  “There are many places in the Rocky Mountains where warm waters halt, and nearly all of them are north of Santa Fe.”
                  A lot of people think the second part of this sentence means that nearly all of the Rocky Mountains are north of Santa Fe. That’s true. But if this sentence means that nearly all of the places in the Rocky Mountains WWWH are north of Santa Fe, that implies there must be at least one place in the Rocky Mountains WWWH that’s not north of Santa Fe. I’ve looked at the Rocky Mountains south of Santa Fe and the only thing I can find that seems to fit the description of warm waters is Montezuma Hot Springs in Las Vegas NM. If warm waters is a hot spring (or geyser), then WWWH would probably be where the water from the hot spring empties into a river. I’m sure Old Pilot will tell us to look up the word halt in a dictionary.

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                  • #54
                    I think Forrest was in great shape even at 80 to haul the treasure on two trips anywhere he wanted, yet I'm going with just a few hundred yards from the parking spot, not miles. Considering the difficulties- obstacles like fallen logs, streams, ledges, cliffs, etc, and considering the hazards like bears, injuries or whatnot while out in the woods, my guess the hiding spot was pretty close, not miles away from the car. Plus when you get miles into the woods, it is really difficult to find an exact same spot twice, let alone after twenty years. (Ever lose something in the woods and try to go back and find it?) Unless the hiding spot was near a landmark, which is unlikely since landmarks are key destination spots for searchers. Plus I think on the trip with the chest with perhaps half of the gold and jewels, you can't really throw it into a backpack and have all the precious contents jostle around every step. So I bet he carried the TC flat, and in front of him with outstretched arms (to keep the lid from flying open and dumping some of the items), which would probably be extremely tedious beyond a few hundred yards.

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                    • #55
                      Four walks, a few miles.

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                      • #56
                        Originally posted by Redneck Girl View Post

                        I think this looks like an excellent location. The treasure could have been hidden in the forest on either side of the creek. The 500-footers might have been people who walked up the creek.

                        As I recall the map you posted showed this area as having the fewest grizzlies in all of YNP. If you could come up with a reasonable idea for hoB then I would be convinced.

                        I think this quote from Forrest is important:
                        “There are many places in the Rocky Mountains where warm waters halt, and nearly all of them are north of Santa Fe.”
                        A lot of people think the second part of this sentence means that nearly all of the Rocky Mountains are north of Santa Fe. That’s true. But if this sentence means that nearly all of the places in the Rocky Mountains WWWH are north of Santa Fe, that implies there must be at least one place in the Rocky Mountains WWWH that’s not north of Santa Fe. I’ve looked at the Rocky Mountains south of Santa Fe and the only thing I can find that seems to fit the description of warm waters is Montezuma Hot Springs in Las Vegas NM. If warm waters is a hot spring (or geyser), then WWWH would probably be where the water from the hot spring empties into a river. I’m sure Old Pilot will tell us to look up the word halt in a dictionary.
                        I like the part of this location just as you gain the valley floor itself (about a mile in) because that is when you are finally rewarded with a nice view. Until then, it is the same seemingly endless scenery, a muddy creek bed criss-crossed by logs and your view is hemmed in along the sides.. Once in the valley proper, there are numerous small stands of lodgepole pine and lots of nooks in the deadfall.

                        I haven't found a really compelling HoB. A few feet upstream on the Gibbon River from where Secret Valley Creek empties into it you do have Iron Spring which has reddish brown water due to iron oxide. Otherwise known as rust, it was the same stuff on the fire escape at school that stained Forrest's pants brown. Not very difficult and more than one searcher has mentioned it as a possible HoB, though perhaps nobody has identified the entire clue correctly in an email to Forrest (to "put in" by going up Secret Valley Creek below Iron Spring.) There is also a circular parking area, again just up river from the creek, and perhaps no searchers have mentioned how this particular "road island" might refer to the home state of Brown University. Again a bit weaker than I'd like for an elegant solve. Of course there could be other possibilities.

                        Yes good point about the Forrest comment implying that at least one place south of Santa Fe has warm waters halting in the Rocky Mountains. The thing is, he could be just stating a generality .... not about only one particular type of warm waters that halt in the poem (in this example a geyser) but every possible interpretation, assuming we loosen the definitions enough. So both a hot spring and a geyser could be acceptable interpretations but the latter would still be more precise and thus more likely to lead to the treasure. Either way, there are hot springs in Gibbon Canyon so it would still work. Also, another interpretation for WWWH could be a body of water that warms enough in the summer to become inhospitable to trout. This applies to the Gibbon River as well (it is often closed to fishing on the hottest summer days) and there is a specific spot along it where you "take it in the canyon down" ... the start of the canyon at Gibbon Geyser Basin.
                        Last edited by Blazingwaddles; 03-31-2021, 07:50 PM.

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                        • #57
                          definition of few is 2 or more

                          FF said LESS than a few
                          so less than 2

                          Jack said ONLY a few
                          so 2

                          2 round trips = 2/4 = 0.5 miles from the car
                          Last edited by Cary_Galloway; 03-31-2021, 07:25 PM.

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                          • #58
                            Originally posted by Cary_Galloway View Post
                            definition of few is 2 or more

                            FF said LESS than a few
                            so less than 2

                            Jack said ONLY a few
                            so 2

                            2 round trips = 2/4 = 0.5 miles from the car
                            That seems reasonable.

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                            • #59
                              Originally posted by Blazingwaddles View Post

                              I like the part of this location just as you gain the valley floor itself (about a mile in) because that is when you are finally rewarded with a nice view. Until then, it is the same seemingly endless scenery, a muddy creek bed criss-crossed by logs and your view is hemmed in along the sides.. Once in the valley proper, there are numerous small stands of lodgepole pine and lots of nooks in the deadfall.

                              I haven't found a really compelling HoB. A few feet upstream on the Gibbon River from where Secret Valley Creek empties into it you do have Iron Spring which has reddish brown water due to iron oxide. Otherwise known as rust, it was the same stuff on the fire escape at school that stained Forrest's pants brown. Not very difficult and more than one searcher has mentioned it as a possible HoB, though perhaps nobody has identified the entire clue correctly in an email to Forrest (to "put in" by going up Secret Valley Creek below Iron Spring.) There is also a circular parking area, again just up river from the creek, and perhaps no searchers have mentioned how this particular "road island" might refer to the home state of Brown University. Again a bit weaker than I'd like for an elegant solve. Of course there could be other possibilities.

                              Yes good point about the Forrest comment implying that at least one place south of Santa Fe has warm waters halting in the Rocky Mountains. The thing is, he could be just stating a generality .... not about only one particular type of warm waters that halt in the poem (in this example a geyser) but every possible interpretation, assuming we loosen the definitions enough.
                              It seems like a nice view would be important, but from what Jack has said it sounds like he was searching in a dense forest. Maybe there are places in the forest where there's a view.

                              There's a paint color called iron brown, but other than that I don't have any ideas.

                              If “There are many places in the Rocky Mountains where warm waters halt, and nearly all of them are north of Santa Fe.” means "There are many places in the Rocky mountains that people might consider to be WWWH, and nearly all of the Rocky Mountains are north of Santa Fe" then that tells us nothing. If I email Jack again I might ask him about this quote.

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                              • #60
                                Originally posted by MZ007 View Post
                                I think Forrest was in great shape even at 80 to haul the treasure on two trips anywhere he wanted, yet I'm going with just a few hundred yards from the parking spot, not miles. Considering the difficulties- obstacles like fallen logs, streams, ledges, cliffs, etc, and considering the hazards like bears, injuries or whatnot while out in the woods, my guess the hiding spot was pretty close, not miles away from the car. Plus when you get miles into the woods, it is really difficult to find an exact same spot twice, let alone after twenty years. (Ever lose something in the woods and try to go back and find it?) Unless the hiding spot was near a landmark, which is unlikely since landmarks are key destination spots for searchers. Plus I think on the trip with the chest with perhaps half of the gold and jewels, you can't really throw it into a backpack and have all the precious contents jostle around every step. So I bet he carried the TC flat, and in front of him with outstretched arms (to keep the lid from flying open and dumping some of the items), which would probably be extremely tedious beyond a few hundred yards.
                                He would have carried the chest empty on the first trip and then the treasure on the second trip. Very likely both trips in a spacious backpack. It may have taken him all afternoon and he states that he was tired during the endeavor and weak afterwards. And he also says you will need to make some sort of effort and be brave. Sure doesn't sound like a casual walk of a few hundred yards.

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