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  • #16
    CRM - I think everything in the book was really about The Chase. All stories, everything, was really about the solution, disguised as something else. It can't be lost on you that many of his stories are preposterous - a kid waving an olive jar in his face on the playground (and almost 70 years later he remembers what it looked like), a washing machine outfitted with a propeller that obtains flight, a ball of string so large it wouldn't fit out his bedroom door. We could make a long list were we so inclined. Burying the jars/bells three feet deep in the Rockies is just another one.

    Someone on this blog made the astute observation the other day that without the book, the poem could be made to fit almost anywhere. I agree. If you likened the poem to a crossword puzzle, having the poem would be like having only the word clues to the crossword. Each clue might have any number of possible answers and the number of potential complete solutions would become exponentially large. But when the clues are numbered and put in a grid, there is only one logical answer to the complete puzzle. This is the way I think the poem/book worked. It was not practical to solve one without the other. The Scrapbooks, etc. came along later and were additional help, but the poem and the book were the original, complete puzzle.

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    • #17
      Originally posted by Spoon View Post
      CRM - I think everything in the book was really about The Chase. All stories, everything, was really about the solution, disguised as something else. It can't be lost on you that many of his stories are preposterous - a kid waving an olive jar in his face on the playground (and almost 70 years later he remembers what it looked like), a washing machine outfitted with a propeller that obtains flight, a ball of string so large it wouldn't fit out his bedroom door. We could make a long list were we so inclined. Burying the jars/bells three feet deep in the Rockies is just another one.

      Someone on this blog made the astute observation the other day that without the book, the poem could be made to fit almost anywhere. I agree. If you likened the poem to a crossword puzzle, having the poem would be like having only the word clues to the crossword. Each clue might have any number of possible answers and the number of potential complete solutions would become exponentially large. But when the clues are numbered and put in a grid, there is only one logical answer to the complete puzzle. This is the way I think the poem/book worked. It was not practical to solve one without the other. The Scrapbooks, etc. came along later and were additional help, but the poem and the book were the original, complete puzzle.
      I agree with you. Look up steganography. Now knowing Forrest was in the CIA, it all makes a little more sense that he would have used cloaked methods in his writing. The scrapbooks are full of hints. Many don’t believe that, but I’ve seen it and believe he was throwing hints out there for the person he knew was close. It would all read as nonsense or simply just stories to someone else. That’s what steganography is all about. I believe the correct location is special from above. From a pilot’s view. I believe that’s how he found the spot. I think it was found later in his life, after he had become a pilot. These are the reasons he said that google earth comes in handy and to, “Look at the big picture.” He said he didn’t want to divulge when he found the site because it would be too much of a clue. This leads me to believe that it wasn’t at the obvious place. Yellowstone, or Cody, etc. When he said, “It’s not what they say on the blogs, it’s what they whisper,” he was substituting himself in that context. It is my opinion that if he blatantly mentioned any place in his books or in conversation, those places aren’t anywhere close to the real location. I believe we’re looking for whisperings. Ranches/farms, rivers, very small location and population, somewhere significant for its place in history yet forgotten, somewhere unassuming. I know some of this that I’m saying is completely obvious, but I still stand on the evidence I’ve seen BOTG and my belief that the chest was not in Wyoming. When the chase first started, or I should say, right when he published TTOTC, the book stated, “In the mountains north of Santa Fe.” The “Rocky Mountains” were an afterthought to broaden the search because of audience growth.
      I have to stand and believe most days that Fenn wasn’t who my doubt says he might have been. A liar. Or someone who was insidiously cruel. I do not think he was. And if he wasn’t those things, this chase didn’t end the way that he wished. So that means there is still a possibility, although slight, of a greater ending awaiting this story. An actual happy ending. He said he thought of everything.
      Reading about the Golden Hare treasure, I was surprised to find that the finder(s) hired a person to stand is as the finder. To do interviews etc. The idea that Jack is a plant or patsy of sorts doesn’t stray too far from the realm of plausibility.
      I’ve said this before, but will say it again. I made a promise to myself and to Forrest to return once more to where I’ve searched 88 days, and I will do it as soon as time and weather permits. One last trip. Then, regardless of of how it works out, closure. Finally.
      Last edited by FenndersKeepers; 02-21-2021, 11:09 PM.

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      • #18
        I hope y'all aren't serious about looking for those bells. We couldn't even find Forrest's TC with a poem of 9 clues, 1-3 books, and hundreds of SBs with possible hints!!

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        • #19
          Spoon My book is filled with notes on aberrations and hints. I think there's something on every page now, but the number of notes are generally proportional to how false I think the story is. Fenn used his full 15 percent untruth non-fiction allocation.

          The absurdity is a bit over the top. Based on the dates, Skippy would have beaten Sikorsky to the helicopter I think. I think Important Literature is a complete fabrication, but I only realized it was absurd after seeing the other books he wrote, his author friends and his book collection.

          The strange thing is he had a truth is stranger than fiction life that came out in his later scrapbooks. Friends or at least acquaintances with two people who were in the car when Kennedy was shot? Friends with an aide of Nixon? Much of that came with the art gallery, but he made it happen. It gets a little muddled, though. Do we believe the Dizzy Dean and Ronald Reagan and Sam Snead stories? Suzanne Sommers is real, Peggy Proctor is real, Forrest Fenn is real. When does bizarre reality become hints? Those were hints for me, and clever, too.
          You can lead a horse to water but you can't make it drink.

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          • #20
            Originally posted by CRM114 View Post
            Spoon My book is filled with notes on aberrations and hints. I think there's something on every page now, but the number of notes are generally proportional to how false I think the story is. Fenn used his full 15 percent untruth non-fiction allocation.

            The absurdity is a bit over the top. Based on the dates, Skippy would have beaten Sikorsky to the helicopter I think. I think Important Literature is a complete fabrication, but I only realized it was absurd after seeing the other books he wrote, his author friends and his book collection.

            The strange thing is he had a truth is stranger than fiction life that came out in his later scrapbooks. Friends or at least acquaintances with two people who were in the car when Kennedy was shot? Friends with an aide of Nixon? Much of that came with the art gallery, but he made it happen. It gets a little muddled, though. Do we believe the Dizzy Dean and Ronald Reagan and Sam Snead stories? Suzanne Sommers is real, Peggy Proctor is real, Forrest Fenn is real. When does bizarre reality become hints? Those were hints for me, and clever, too.
            Good observations. I asked Jack if he thought the characters in Forrest’s scrapbooks represented searchers. He said “no Courtney. The Dizzy Dean story is true. Dizzy was a real person.”

            Thats when I started to believe that he was coloring a picture he didn’t have the crayons for. Of course Dizzy Dean was real! But who was the Dizz of the chase? For someone who examined everything Fenn did and knew him very well...he didn’t seem to know him at all. Or maybe we all, as searchers, created stories in his stories that weren’t there? I don’t know.

            I agree, Forrest was surprised that Jack ended up with the chest. Something weird went down.

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            • #21
              Forrest loved cows I bet part of dizzy dean story is the
              bullpen or bullock

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              • #22
                Originally posted by Copper View Post

                Good observations. I asked Jack if he thought the characters in Forrest’s scrapbooks represented searchers. He said “no Courtney. The Dizzy Dean story is true. Dizzy was a real person.”

                Thats when I started to believe that he was coloring a picture he didn’t have the crayons for. Of course Dizzy Dean was real! But who was the Dizz of the chase? For someone who examined everything Fenn did and knew him very well...he didn’t seem to know him at all. Or maybe we all, as searchers, created stories in his stories that weren’t there? I don’t know.

                I agree, Forrest was surprised that Jack ended up with the chest. Something weird went down.
                Thanks, Copper

                Yes, that answer is really odd. Love the crayon metaphor. Sometimes I wonder if he is "stealing wheelbarrows" if you saw that video he referenced and flaunting it, but I could go with doesn't know too. There is something weird, and I can't decide if it's good, bad or neutral.

                I wish there wasn't. Discrepancies just make me want to figure them out, but this thing is really getting past its "sell by" date.

                Back to the jars/bells. I'm certain Forrest didn't bury all of those he said he would in random places 3 feet deep. But one new thought is he threw at least one in a pit at San Lazaro and covered it with fill. I can totally see that as a Forrest thing to do. Maybe one or more in his back yard. He didn't make the ones in the photos for no purpose other than a story, but given the story we are told of burial of the chest, he didn't put much effort into burying those jars and bells.
                Last edited by CRM114; 02-22-2021, 01:46 PM.
                You can lead a horse to water but you can't make it drink.

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                • #23
                  Just adding this for reference -- I transcribed much of the KSFR Santa Fe Radio Cafe show from 10/25/2010 with Mary-Charlotte Domandi interviewing Forrest. Here's the part relevant to the bells:

                  Domandi: “You’ve also made some bronze bells with inscriptions on them.”

                  FF: “That’s right. I like that part in my book where I talk about the future. You know, I’ve made … I’ve buried eight bells and jars, and all of them have sayings that I elevated around the edge … I cast them in bronze out at Shidoni Foundry in Tesuque. And one of them says, ‘Ring the bell loudly, for he who dies with over $50 is a failure.’ Another one says, ‘If you should ever think of me a thousand years from now, please ring my bell so I will know.’ And I’m burying these bells deep just indiscriminately out in the desert. And I don’t want anybody to find them for a thousand years or 10,000 years. But if they … when someone does find one, accidentally, and reads that inscription, and sees my name and the date 2007 or 2008, they’re going to say, ‘Good lord, look who this…’ You know, the man that carved the Rosetta Stone – that thing was hidden for 2,000 years before it was found. And that’s the kind of thing that my imagination runs wild when I start talking about these things. And I said in my book, is all of New Mexico going to be covered with houses and asphalt? To the point where we can’t go outside and look across the desert for the thrill of seeing nothing at all? We don’t know where we’re going. Things are happening too fast.”

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                  • #24
                    Buried indiscriminately deep in the desert?
                    To hell with this jars and bells...I’ll never find one!

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                    • #25
                      The new cynthia video has a pic of jars in Forrest's house, like the other pic I described before.

                      https://youtu.be/Alwo6eRwSng?t=2m48s

                      It looks like eight in all. He said he was burying "about 8." Spoon
                      Last edited by CRM114; 03-01-2021, 01:42 PM.
                      You can lead a horse to water but you can't make it drink.

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                      • #26
                        I was thinking about the Jars last night and pondering if you should allow them to be? Forrest would love for someone in the far future to find them and open one and ponder who Forrest was. That being said, what if there was a key to where Forrest placed the bells? Would you go and dig them all up or leave them to the future?

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                        • #27
                          Originally posted by Walking Among Lions View Post
                          I was thinking about the Jars last night and pondering if you should allow them to be? Forrest would love for someone in the far future to find them and open one and ponder who Forrest was. That being said, what if there was a key to where Forrest placed the bells? Would you go and dig them all up or leave them to the future?
                          This Cynthia pic may indicate he never got around to burying any jar, except the olive jar in the chest, unless he made more than eight. We need a better view of the jars to see if they are some of the same ones in the book.

                          It occurs to me he may have hid one bell or jar at the site as insurance for his legacy in case someone took the chest and never reported it.
                          You can lead a horse to water but you can't make it drink.

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                          • #28
                            Originally posted by CRM114 View Post

                            This Cynthia pic may indicate he never got around to burying any jar, except the olive jar in the chest, unless he made more than eight. We need a better view of the jars to see if they are some of the same ones in the book.

                            It occurs to me he may have hid one bell or jar at the site as insurance for his legacy in case someone took the chest and never reported it.
                            Did Forrest ever say how many bells and jars he buried?

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                            • #29
                              So, we don't know for sure how many he buried?

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                              • #30
                                Originally posted by Walking Among Lions View Post
                                So, we don't know for sure how many he buried?
                                It's all there in TTOTC. I summarized in an earlier post.
                                You can lead a horse to water but you can't make it drink.

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