The Scrapbooks

[trueyeti]

I agree, so knowing is out of the window.

Maybe TTOTC is an allegory that is designed to give you "gnosis." Hey, Forrest's poem says "I give you title to the gold," maybe that means the gold is in the "knowing." Allegory maybe.....

"The answers I already know" ..... "knowing" ..... "gnosis."

Instructional in the ways of gnosis .... or "knowing" ..... IMO, TTOTC teaches you how to solve a riddle. The riddle of the poem, the metaphors of the poem, the riddle of your life, the metaphors of your life.....and through the labyrinth as we progress.... such is the hero's journey, we pick up knowledge....gnosis....

IMO....there is a way to know, Forrest said to us that we should focus on "where the first clue is." That is the location of the first clue, and that is where the solution begins. IMO, the beginning of "knowing" begins where you "Begin it." The window? Isn't it said that the eyes are the window to the soul?

[Zapster]

Patience. There's only 1 thing left to do before the solve can come out.

I'd say the Patience Ship sailed three summers ago. Why should we wait for a solution in summer number 4 (can't use numbersign 4, or it gets turned into a "Blogs" link, lol) since the Spring 2020 find, when the summers of 2020-2022 produced nothing? There's nothing to find at this point except buried bells, and possibly the exact geographic location of where the in situ found-treasure pictures were taken.

[shyorphan]

I'd say the Patience Ship sailed three summers ago. Why should we wait for a solution in summer number 4 (can't use numbersign 4, or it gets turned into a "Blogs" link, lol) since the Spring 2020 find, when the summers of 2020-2022 produced nothing? There's nothing to find at this point except buried bells, and possibly the exact geographic location of where the in situ found-treasure pictures were taken.

Good points but there's a reason for everything. I happen to think something is coming this year.

[shyorphan]

It was only a year ago that Frank (shyorphan) was hunting Forrest, claiming he was alive.

Stop fibbing Space Hopper. Stick to the facts.

[Zapster]

Good points but there's a reason for everything. I happen to think something is coming this year.

Well, there's always "something," so that's not really going out on a limb with that prediction. What people want to learn is something substantial, and that hasn't really happened since the treasure was found, photos were released, Forrest passed, and Jack (seemingly needlessly) outed himself. I don't see that situation changing in the next 3-5 years, but maybe I'll be surprised.

[voxpops]

One thing that often gets forgotten is that any solution now presented can only have credence if it clearly demonstrates the need for the post-find secrecy and subterfuge, not to mention the scrapbook anomalies.

At the start of this thread, RussDana gave a little background to how some of the SBs originated. In a later post he expressed confusion as to why the bobcat story is massaged to have Forrest as the finder and friend of this feline. SB 235 is about a crossbreed, the product of two related, but distinct, subspecies, with characteristics of both. What is Forrest really telling us in an odd story which hints at the importance of DNA? It is just one example of a peculiar tale that must have some special meaning, since it appears to be hijacked and retold this way for a specific purpose.

At this stage, IMO, it is not sufficient to simply promote a geographical spot without reference to the immense effort put in by Forrest to keep the story hidden and the hints so bizarre. Despite court cases, photographs, an auction, an "outing" and myriad "aberrations," we are no further forward than three years ago. All the solutions promulgated here recently seem to have nothing to say about what is really behind all this. If a solution fails to substantially and adequately address these issues, I doubt it has much validity.

[trueyeti]

One thing that often gets forgotten is that any solution now presented can only have credence if it clearly demonstrates the need for the post-find secrecy and subterfuge, not to mention the scrapbook anomalies.

At the start of this thread, RussDana gave a little background to how some of the SBs originated. In a later post he expressed confusion as to why the bobcat story is massaged to have Forrest as the finder and friend of this feline. SB 235 is about a crossbreed, the product of two related, but distinct, subspecies, with characteristics of both. What is Forrest really telling us in an odd story which hints at the importance of DNA? It is just one example of a peculiar tale that must have some special meaning, since it appears to be hijacked and retold this way for a specific purpose.

At this stage, IMO, it is not sufficient to simply promote a geographical spot without reference to the immense effort put in by Forrest to keep the story hidden and the hints so bizarre. Despite court cases, photographs, an auction, an "outing" and myriad "aberrations," we are no further forward than three years ago. All the solutions promulgated here recently seem to have nothing to say about what is really behind all this. If a solution fails to substantially and adequately address these issues, I doubt it has much validity.

Felonies associated with excavations...contests on BLM federal Wilderness-designated lands, use of a metal detector, look it up for yourself......
Consequences
Ass-hats and archeologists.....and the FBI....raid on his house.....
Navajo mythology incorporated into the solve. Sacred....beliefs, myths, and ceremonial areas. Consequences from the Nation?
A chiral....duplicitous meaning....the crossbreed. The griffin is an example of amalgamation of forms/symbols lion/bird/man/etc....the sphinx.
His clues/solve involves the W/M as an example of amalgamation of forms/symbols and links to the cross-species bit, IMO
There is a cat out there...."brave and in the wood" is a Lion. One of the clues enfolded into the others....part of the story....linked to SBs.
Two can keep a secret.....
Didn't Forrest say, "Shut up?"
Legacy
Protect his estate
Ensure mystery, mystique....for the making of a myth is often founded in legend and such things.
To leave it to us....to figure it all out......

Can you buy one or two? Can you add any to the list? If so, there is your answer. If not....you may not find an answer......
It is all about location.

[voxpops]

Felonies associated with excavations...contests on BLM federal Wilderness-designated lands, use of a metal detector, look it up for yourself......
Consequences
Ass-hats and archeologists.....and the FBI....raid on his house.....
Navajo mythology incorporated into the solve. Sacred....beliefs, myths, and ceremonial areas. Consequences from the Nation?
A chiral....duplicitous meaning....the crossbreed. The griffin is an example of amalgamation of forms/symbols lion/bird/man/etc....the sphinx.
His clues/solve involves the W/M as an example of amalgamation of forms/symbols and links to the cross-species bit, IMO
There is a cat out there...."brave and in the wood" is a Lion. One of the clues enfolded into the others....part of the story....linked to SBs.
Two can keep a secret.....
Didn't Forrest say, "Shut up?"
Legacy
Protect his estate
Ensure mystery, mystique....for the making of a myth is often founded in legend and such things.
To leave it to us....to figure it all out......

Can you buy one or two? Can you add any to the list? If so, there is your answer. If not....you may not find an answer......
It is all about location.

You make some interesting points. I'd like to look at some in the context of the find and subsequent sale.

The items sold include a bunch of coins, gold dust and nuggets, a few artifacts, and a glass jar with, we presume, an autobiography. I don't think any of the items auctioned off would attract the interest of the authorities. Unless there's something uniquely important about the chest and dragon bracelet, I can't see what would require continuing secrecy there. Fenn's dead, Jack's off the scene, the LLC has melted away and a bunch of searchers have acquired some souvenirs. And yet every avenue of inquiry remains closed to us.

Navajo mythology is particularly intriguing IMO. It is possible, though unlikely, that the chest was found on tribal land. If it was, that might well inhibit a finder. However, the impression I get is that FF was very respectful toward Native American customs on the whole. His story of taking part in a Crow ceremony is a case in point. Would he have done anything that trampled over such beliefs? I doubt it - and he may have even gone on to deeper participation in ancient customs. Did he employ ritual in the chase? I have wondered about that for a long time. If he did, it reinforces the notion that there's something very special about this treasure hunt.

"Crossbreed" is an interesting word, given "where all the lines [lineages] cross," the tangled phone lines, the missing X, and the hairs in the olive jar. You mention mythological creatures and symbols, but I wonder if we aren't talking about something less ephemeral. He describes nurturing the bobcat/kitty until it was ready to disappear into the night. Who or what has he been nurturing through the chase?

I like the idea of a lion. I once tried to make things work near Daniel, Wyoming. The lion is such an omnipresent symbol in history and myth that I could see that having some relevance to the chase. However, we shouldn't forget that the poem states, "If you are brave," and Fenn said that the words mean what they say in plain English. Again, he guides us away from metaphor and toward actuality.

Forrest did say "shut up." That is one of the odd things about this ending. He had lawyers to protect his estate, so I don't think he needed the finder to worry about that.

He certainly ensured mystery and mystique. Perhaps his legacy was important to him after all, but given the events we've seen over the past few years, many have concluded that they haven't left this decorated pilot with a very shiny legacy. Personally, I think he didn't give two hoots for what people thought of him, but he cared deeply about the state of the world.

I can agree with your closing statement up to a point. I believe the location is key, but that it is only key within a context that we don't yet know. For a location to be shrouded in this much secrecy and obfuscation, it must be somewhere of the utmost importance to Fenn. IMO.

[trueyeti]

You make some interesting points. I'd like to look at some in the context of the find and subsequent sale.

The items sold include a bunch of coins, gold dust and nuggets, a few artifacts, and a glass jar with, we presume, an autobiography. I don't think any of the items auctioned off would attract the interest of the authorities. Unless there's something uniquely important about the chest and dragon bracelet, I can't see what would require continuing secrecy there. Fenn's dead, Jack's off the scene, the LLC has melted away and a bunch of searchers have acquired some souvenirs. And yet every avenue of inquiry remains closed to us.

Navajo mythology is particularly intriguing IMO. It is possible, though unlikely, that the chest was found on tribal land. If it was, that might well inhibit a finder. However, the impression I get is that FF was very respectful toward Native American customs on the whole. His story of taking part in a Crow ceremony is a case in point. Would he have done anything that trampled over such beliefs? I doubt it - and he may have even gone on to deeper participation in ancient customs. Did he employ ritual in the chase? I have wondered about that for a long time. If he did, it reinforces the notion that there's something very special about this treasure hunt.

"Crossbreed" is an interesting word, given "where all the lines [lineages] cross," the tangled phone lines, the missing X, and the hairs in the olive jar. You mention mythological creatures and symbols, but I wonder if we aren't talking about something less ephemeral. He describes nurturing the bobcat/kitty until it was ready to disappear into the night. Who or what has he been nurturing through the chase?

I like the idea of a lion. I once tried to make things work near Daniel, Wyoming. The lion is such an omnipresent symbol in history and myth that I could see that having some relevance to the chase. However, we shouldn't forget that the poem states, "If you are brave," and Fenn said that the words mean what they say in plain English. Again, he guides us away from metaphor and toward actuality.

Forrest did say "shut up." That is one of the odd things about this ending. He had lawyers to protect his estate, so I don't think he needed the finder to worry about that.

He certainly ensured mystery and mystique. Perhaps his legacy was important to him after all, but given the events we've seen over the past few years, many have concluded that they haven't left this decorated pilot with a very shiny legacy. Personally, I think he didn't give two hoots for what people thought of him, but he cared deeply about the state of the world.

I can agree with your closing statement up to a point. I believe the location is key, but that it is only key within a context that we don't yet know. For a location to be shrouded in this much secrecy and obfuscation, it must be somewhere of the utmost importance to Fenn. IMO.

Up and down and in and out, and round and round and round again.....all of your thoughts.....possibilities. IMO....location is the penultimate thing as rendered by him when he said, "where the first clue is." That is part of a larger quote...I'm sure you have read it.

That said....location....is the place of his secret(s) that provides the answers that he "already knows." Hands down, where he hid his chest.

For example....at Bisti, the hidey hole is 10 feet from Navajo Nations land. There has been ruminations of a border/wall/barrier. In addition to this there is a fifty by fifty grove of juniper trees in the shape of an arrow.....right there at the Navajo wall. Chaco Canyon's Pueblo Bonito has a famous wall. That wall appears at the pueblo in the shape of a "D" and prayers were said there....still are. Richard Wetherill is associated with both Bisti and Chaco Canyon...as he had stores at both locations. (Only 18 miles apart)

The treasure chest had coins from "Old Mexico." Bisti is in "New Mexico." Riches new old and old? And why not? Bisti is 119 miles from Santa Fe....he lived there for decades....was immersed in Native American art/folklore/history. Remembering that he had indicated that he would never reveal where he hid the chest...and then we get Wyoming. That came 2-days after I sent him the Bisti solve by the way....IMO....it shook him.....to say Wyoming. Anyway.....

A lion is brave and in the wood if the lion is made of stone and wood. I have shown the picture. The words match.

At Bisti the solve has large components of incorporated archetypes....from myths. (Including the Navajo Myth: The House of the Father Sun) You can see a 7-minute video of this on YouTube by Joseph Campell with that title. Bisti.....The dragon is there....guarding Forrest's gold, the Lion is there....guarding Forrest's secrets, the double omega is there....appearing at sunset and pointing to the grove of juniper trees, you just have to "cross." Yeah...that's the double omega. IMO.....many reasons to divert away from Bisti. Motivation? Well we are smart people.....that list up there can be added to, taken away from....developed further.....upside down, inside out, and round and round again. IMO...objectively.....location is proved there at Bisti. (Mockery Welcomed thread...first comment). IMO....that is the objective reality. IMO, there is a story behind the story of Forrest's TTOTC...and that is the winning solve. IMO.....he was motivated to keep things a secret and leave it up to us to figure it out. IMO...in so doing....his myth/legend/legacy is ensured and shrouded by a lasting sense of mystique/mystery/intrigue/controversy....for all time. However....location proved 100%.....is the doorway/threshold/bridge.....that the reader must cross themselves....because of the steps that he took to cover his footprints to achieve his goals. We can discern these, his intentions, his motivations, etc., al. by discerning location. Because location is where his solve resides...and that is where the Lion and the Dragon are guarding his gold, and his secrets. "A word that is key" still applies to open the lock that opens understanding and discoveries yet to be made known and understood.

Good comment you made there mate. Good comment.....

[voxpops]

Up and down and in and out, and round and round and round again.....

Maybe a bit like this?

https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/stolen-motor-found-perched-metal-30000835

[Rose Livingstone]

How did the car thieves know where to park the car prior to the raising pillar? Surely this isn’t a publicity stunt with a willing vehicle donation involved? I have no idea what brand so not sure which mega billion company to credit with ‘viral staged sculpture’.
But that’s how “250k can make anyone a star” isn’t it? I’d be impressed if it was a Lego ad and the pillar were made of legos.

[voxpops]

How did the car thieves know where to park the car prior to the raising pillar? Surely this isn’t a publicity stunt with a willing vehicle donation involved? I have no idea what brand so not sure which mega billion company to credit with ‘viral staged sculpture’.
But that’s how “250k can make anyone a star” isn’t it? I’d be impressed if it was a Lego ad and the pillar were made of legos.

It's a Honda Civic, first registered in March 2006 - so most likely not a publicity stunt for any manufacturer or dealer. Raising a car onto a metal column in the middle of a roundabout by a supermarket - albeit at night - without being seen, and without apparently damaging the vehicle, takes some serious skill and timing! No culprit has so far been found.

Perhaps it is some sort of ephemeral art. Maybe it's the same guys who put up those monoliths a couple of years ago. Or it's just another aberration.

[shyorphan]

and those are?

Your preceding statement was bs for starters.

[trueyeti]

And yet every avenue of inquiry remains closed to us.

Navajo mythology is particularly intriguing IMO. It is possible, though unlikely, that the chest was found on tribal land. If it was, that might well inhibit a finder. However, the impression I get is that FF was very respectful toward Native American customs on the whole. His story of taking part in a Crow ceremony is a case in point. Would he have done anything that trampled over such beliefs? I doubt it - and he may have even gone on to deeper participation in ancient customs. Did he employ ritual in the chase? I have wondered about that for a long time. If he did, it reinforces the notion that there's something very special about this treasure hunt.

Re-read this comment...thought I'd comment again.

IMO, certainty of location opens up a new field into the "inquiry" for all things TTOTC. All the legal angles, secrets, answers, etc....IMO...that opens the chase....breaths new life into it. For example, we have the Wyoming disclosure, but a location 100% certain in New Mexico. Well, IMO...that Wyoming disclosure is nothing more than.....a riddle. IMO...this is in line with the sort of method that Forrest employs.....all along. IMO....this is a simple and honest answer. Forrest worked in subterfuge with TTOTC. Why should the ending be any different? Despite the legal stuff and whatnot....

About the Native American angle. I don't know if you've seen the pictures of the excavated hole I found at the grove of juniper trees....2 weeks after the recovery of the chest.....but, that hole....is less than 200 feet from the US General Land Office Survey marker, and that hole is like less than 20 feet from a Navajo Nations tract of land. (That...is a figurative wall/border). In the solve out there.....the home of Brown....becomes associated with the Navajo Myth, "The House of the Father Sun." In that myth...there are twins that are involved...the son's of the Father Sun. Anyway....the title on the monolith is "DICK," but when you apply "I give you title to the gold" to it, it transforms into "DUCK," rendering it into "Brown."

Now keep up....."DICK" is the same as the "DICK BEGAY" that is on another hieroglyph that is some 1300 feet away. The "DICK" is one in the same...."BEGAY." The word Begay....in Navajo....means "the son(s) of." So....when you are standing on the home of Brown (the monolith), it is also "Begay" and when the sun sets.....you see the golden double omega. So....the Sun....creates the double omega....or the "twins in the Navajo myth." The son's of the Sun.....

This is a secret of Forrest's IMO....it goes into the Navajo Myth.....he incorporated something very sacred to the Navajo....into his solve. IMO.....this is like.....going into Navajo lands....like you alluded to. IMO....there is good reason to deflect away from Bisti and say "Wyoming." IMO....that goes to the "why" of the reasoning behind Forrest's motivations. Consider it....well.....if your mind's eye can accept the likely hood of Bisti as location, then it isn't that much of a stretch to apply what I just shared to understand Forrest's potential motivations to "never reveal where he hid the chest." Wyoming gives him separation in this regard. (Possession is 9/10ths the law). Allowing him to actually never reveal location....while setting himself up to preserve his legacy/estate.....while creating mystique/legend....etc....

[voxpops]

IMO, certainty of location opens up a new field into the "inquiry" for all things TTOTC.

I hope that the certainty of location you have brings you closure. I have seen hundreds of posts from various searchers expressing such certainty about various spots. I fully understand it because I've been in that situation before - many times - and it was probably the "certainty" that motivated me to continue the chase. But I also recall FF's comments about flexibility and being able to adjust.

I was not one of the original searchers, but I joined the chase after the 2013 TV promotion of the treasure hunt. I dread to think how much of the last decade I've devoted to this madness - even to the extent of reciting the poem over and over during the middle of the night, probing for a crack that would allow true insight.

But it's only post-find that something dawned on me. I came to the conclusion that we were never meant to find the chest as photographed. On the surface of it that sounds like sour grapes regarding Jack's discovery. But I don't think Jack would argue that the find has been the kind of dream-come-true experience that we all thought would be the outcome. And it doesn't make any difference whether he found it by following the poem, tracking slip-ups, or subterfuge; there was no real "golden" moment for him.

I've said before that I think the chest was a lure and that it doesn't matter too much where that box was hidden. What matters is the education. So much of TTOTC is dedicated to learning - at home, in school, in Yellowstone, at college (almost), in the Air Force, through history - and mainly via experience. The point was to get us out there learning; about ourselves, about each other, about nature and - dare I say it - about spirituality.

However, I don't think that's the final word. Education by itself is valuable, but Forrest used what he learned to further his chosen activities (highly successfully). If all we needed to do was grab a degree in woodcraft then there would have been no need for the post-find shenanigans. I think we're supposed to do something with our acquired skills - something that will help with Forrest's epitaph. Breadcrumbs were dropped, IMO, but there are a lot of crows out there ready to gobble them up.