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  • Anna Graham
    replied
    Originally posted by Zapster View Post

    Okay, I never paid much attention to the content of your anagrams because I felt the method was flawed. But now that I look, you have a problem here:

    "Longitude thirty-six" (rather coincidental with the Edward Elgar solution!) The problem is that 36 isn't a longitude, it's a latitude. Similarly:

    If this is a reference to 105 08' or 105.8 degrees, that's a longitude not a latitude. Has no one pointed this out to you previously?
    That’s the problem people write off the solution before they have even read it.

    Yes, latitude and longitude are reversed, whether that was by design, by the architect, to add a further level of complication, I cannot say. Remember, when he was asked about rules and he said “who’s rules.” His poem, his solution, his rules.

    And you are the first person who has noticed that discrepancy.
    Last edited by Anna Graham; 07-31-2020, 09:30 PM.

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  • Zapster
    replied
    Originally posted by Anna Graham View Post

    First I played around with the word "theme" in the "one across" anagram solver, my "go to" program for anagramming. Making little progress, I researched the Dorabella hint. Then I went looking for the Royal Holloway page, when I found it I read the page and I saw that the article said the anagram had "a musical theme." Knowing Elgar was a composer, I read his wikipedia page when I found the information about "Variations on an Original Theme." I put Edward Elgar in front of the "Variations on an Original Theme and it didn't take me long to figure out the rest of the anagram, about 2 hours altogether.
    That's still good sleuthing given what you were provided.
    Yes, I'm interested in the process you used to solved it, since you didn't have as much information.
    For me, the main clue (from the first puzzle) was "large" and mysterious anagram. So I literally anagrammed large to ELGAR. I naturally added EDWARD, and removed these letters from the anagram. I noticed that all the letters of VARIATIONS could be found in the remaining letters, and since "Variations on an original theme" was a famous Elgar piece, I checked and saw that all of that could be extracted. That left 25 letters:

    U SY XPS I HR RTOR COE, FOR IT HATS

    I could see the letters of orchestra (and FOR was there as is), so I pulled them out leaving:

    U SY XP I R O IT HTS

    At that point, it was obvious it was an anagram of OPUS thirty-six. So "Edward Elgar Variations on an original theme for orchestra, opus thirty-six."


    It took me all of 2016 to figure out the first 5 stanza's of individual anagrams. But for the 1st fourteen months, I thought the solution was 5 stanza's of individual anagrams with a 6th stanza that was a double line anagram adding (ix) to the first two lines of the stanza

    "So hear me all and listen good, your effort will be worth the cold" When you add (ix) roman numeral nine to the first two lines it anagrams to : Longitude thirty six, follow ash colored tree, mallow beforehand. That's why, he wrote scrapbook 73, because he ends the sentence with a preposition.
    Okay, I never paid much attention to the content of your anagrams because I felt the method was flawed. But now that I look, you have a problem here:

    "Longitude thirty-six" (rather coincidental with the Edward Elgar solution!) The problem is that 36 isn't a longitude, it's a latitude. Similarly:

    "If you are brave and in the wood, I give you title to the gold" anagrams to: Latitude one o five eight, behold doorway intuit voyager.
    If this is a reference to 105 08' or 105.8 degrees, that's a longitude not a latitude. Has no one pointed this out to you previously?

    Leave a comment:


  • Anna Graham
    replied
    Originally posted by Zapster View Post

    It was actually 4 of us, and we independently solved the first four ciphers before we collaborated on the 5th and 6th.

    I will give you creds for finding the Royal Holloway page and Belfield's book. I didn't know about Richard's challenge until June 2009 -- three years after the book was published, so it did not take me six years -- it was half that, over 3/4 of which was spent on #6.

    I don't recall how long it took me to solve the large anagram -- certainly at least a couple days after I received the book. I'm quite sure others more skilled with anagrams (such as yourself) solved it more quickly than I. But the point is, that anagram was unsolvable without additional information. You needed to know about Elgar, and I probably shouldn't have given you the Dorabella hint because that wasn't information we puzzle solvers had. You had to solve puzzle #1 first to have the hint for solving #2: "The cipher text in the next puzzle is a mysterious and large anagram (the plaintext may prove useful in solving subsequent puzzles)." Knowing the answer, it won't take you any time to figure out what the hints in puzzle #1 were, but I would be interested in knowing the progression you followed to decipher it. Afterwards, I'll share how I did it (if you care).

    For what it's worth, on November 3rd that year, I had caught up to the few others who had solved the 4th puzzle. That's when I was invited to join a small team working on the 5th one. Unfortunately, there was a deadline for solving all the puzzles which expired before we solved the final puzzle in 2012. But, like TTOTC, there was still the challenge of solving it, and unlike TTOTC -- the bragging rights of being the first to do so.
    First I played around with the word "theme" in the "one across" anagram solver, my "go to" program for anagramming. Making little progress, I researched the Dorabella hint. Then I went looking for the Royal Holloway page, when I found it I read the page and I saw that the article said the anagram had "a musical theme." Knowing Elgar was a composer, I read his wikipedia page when I found the information about "Variations on an Original Theme." I put Edward Elgar in front of the "Variations on an Original Theme and it didn't take me long to figure out the rest of the anagram, about 2 hours altogether. Yes, I'm interested in the process you used to solved it, since you didn't have as much information.

    You said "You will almost certainly come up with something that uses all the letters, but I predict it will bear no resemblance to the correct solution. That will be the point of my exercise: to show the futility of attempting overly long anagrams."

    It took me all of 2016 to figure out the first 5 stanza's of individual anagrams. But for the 1st fourteen months, I thought the solution was 5 stanza's of individual anagrams with a 6th stanza that was a double line anagram adding (ix) to the first two lines of the stanza

    "So hear me all and listen good, your effort will be worth the cold" When you add (ix) roman numeral nine to the first two lines it anagrams to : Longitude thirty six, follow ash colored tree, mallow beforehand. That's why, he wrote scrapbook 73, because he ends the sentence with a preposition.

    As with some definitions, there are many issues in this life that I don’t agree with (“with” is a preposition). Who made the rule that says I shouldn’t end a sentence with a preposition? Probably some Harvard PhD somewhere. Einstein said, “Ending a sentence with a preposition is something up with which I will not put.” He had a very unique way of saying things differently. (My English teacher in high school told me that “There is no such thing as very unique. Either it’s unique or it isn’t and unique doesn’t need to be qualified.” I never liked that woman.

    "If you are brave and in the wood, I give you title to the gold" anagrams to: Latitude one o five eight, behold doorway intuit voyager.

    In the summer of 2017, I was in Santa Fe for FennBoree, and I spent about a week in Cimarron Canyon, finding the "one candidate tiny known hat, float." It was three tree stumps tied together by barbed wire, the barbed wire was floating. And I found the tree trunk that looked like Edvard Munch's the scream. But I wasnt making progress on the solve, so I thought ok maybe there is a single line solution for stanza six. And I found the first line relatively quickly, "so hear me all and listen good,' anagrammed to "one seldom heads along trail." But I struggled with the line "Your effort will be worth the cold." One day I was playing around with the anagram solver, and I found the word "clue." Well we all know that indulgence anagrammed to "ending clue." But I could only find "ending clue if I used "So hear me all and listen good your effort will be worth the cold." So I plugged "ending clue" into the anagram solver and found "for whom the bell tolls." For whom the bell tolls, is one of the aberrations in the book, he misidentifies it as the story of an ambulance driver in WWI, which is really, A farewell to arms. So with ending clue and for whom the bell tolls, I found Soldier at doorway heart of ending clue for whom the bell tolls. The aberrations in the book, were hints to the wording of the anagram solution. It was then that I knew that there were three ways to solve the anagram, single line double line and double line adding (ix) to the first two lines of each stanza. What I find fascinating is Forrest found 2 completely different solutions for lines 3 and 4, in both the double line anagram and the double line anagram adding (ix) to the first two lines. This is why it took him 15 years to write the poem, because every word had to fit like a jigsaw puzzle. I guess the point I'm trying to make is you can solve an anagram with a couple word, it just requires a little intuition and an idea of what the author is trying to convey.

    So I spent the rest of the summer of 2017 trying to figure out the double line and double line adding (ix) to the poem anagrams, but I got three of the anagrams wrong.

    From there its no place for the meek, the end is drawing nigh - Proceed to thermometer, fahrenheit kelvin index, swagger finish

    There'll be no paddle up your creek, just heavy loads and water high - Three two hard double play adjust seven up, large key chain holder

    If you've been wise and found the blaze look quickly down your quest to cease - FOB destination unique cloudy red sky sixty one below quake, clue zoo have few

    It was only after, the scrapbook, Requiem of a Wreck, came out and Sacha Johnson's brilliant analysis that the mirror was a metaphor for the solution, but it had cosmetic damage, it still worked, and got you to the right place, it just wasn't correct, that I decided to try and re-anagram these lines.

    From there its no place for the meek, the end is drawing nigh - Six weeks to right memoir, departed chief fleeing northern haven

    There'll be no paddle up your creek, just heavy loads and water high - Joseph Heller's autobiography underhandedly elevated war, tuck

    If you've been wise and found the blaze look quickly down your quest to cease - untouched novel inside box buried at foot of oak, sly yawn, ewe quickly squeeze.

    So "the tell, that my solution is correct will come if Forrest decides to publish his "memoir" about Chief Joseph fleeing the US army. I am the only person who has made the claim that the book inside the chest is the story of Chief Joseph.

    Click image for larger version  Name:	nine.png Views:	0 Size:	2.25 MB ID:	184142
    Last edited by Anna Graham; 07-31-2020, 06:12 PM.

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  • BiggishShoes
    replied
    Originally posted by Anna Graham View Post
    Edward Elgar Variations On An Original Theme opus thirty six for orchestra.

    Booyah! Now will you take my solve more seriously?
    so what's the question?

    Leave a comment:


  • BiggishShoes
    replied
    Originally posted by Anna Graham View Post
    Edward Elgar Variations On An Original Theme opus thirty six for orchestra.

    Booyah! Now will you take my solve more seriously?
    by jove old boy i think you cracked it!

    Leave a comment:


  • Zapster
    replied
    Originally posted by Anna Graham View Post

    Do I win an WWII enigma machine if I crack it? ALAN TURING, ENIGMA, VISIONARY, EXPOSES THEIR HARD ROTOR CODE, FOR IT HALTS WAR.

    It took the 5 people six years to decipher the 6 puzzles. And do I have six years?

    https://issuu.com/royalholloway/docs...31216170814_75
    It was actually 4 of us, and we independently solved the first four ciphers before we collaborated on the 5th and 6th.

    I will give you creds for finding the Royal Holloway page and Belfield's book. I didn't know about Richard's challenge until June 2009 -- three years after the book was published, so it did not take me six years -- it was half that, over 3/4 of which was spent on #6.

    I don't recall how long it took me to solve the large anagram -- certainly at least a couple days after I received the book. I'm quite sure others more skilled with anagrams (such as yourself) solved it more quickly than I. But the point is, that anagram was unsolvable without additional information. You needed to know about Elgar, and I probably shouldn't have given you the Dorabella hint because that wasn't information we puzzle solvers had. You had to solve puzzle #1 first to have the hint for solving #2: "The cipher text in the next puzzle is a mysterious and large anagram (the plaintext may prove useful in solving subsequent puzzles)." Knowing the answer, it won't take you any time to figure out what the hints in puzzle #1 were, but I would be interested in knowing the progression you followed to decipher it. Afterwards, I'll share how I did it (if you care).

    For what it's worth, on November 3rd that year, I had caught up to the few others who had solved the 4th puzzle. That's when I was invited to join a small team working on the 5th one. Unfortunately, there was a deadline for solving all the puzzles which expired before we solved the final puzzle in 2012. But, like TTOTC, there was still the challenge of solving it, and unlike TTOTC -- the bragging rights of being the first to do so.

    Leave a comment:


  • Anna Graham
    replied
    Edward Elgar Variations On An Original Theme opus thirty six for orchestra.

    Booyah! Now will you take my solve more seriously?
    Last edited by Anna Graham; 07-31-2020, 03:47 AM.

    Leave a comment:


  • Anna Graham
    replied
    Originally posted by Zapster View Post
    Wow: you're throwing insults before I've even given you the challenge?! If I appear to be "self righteous" it's because I'm an expert cryptanalyst, and I know what is and isn't possible in the anagram world. So yes: boasts like yours happen to annoy me. But rather than waste time slinging counter-insults at you, I choose to try to educate by example.

    "Are you going to tell me the rules of anagramming..."
    There is no need. You clearly understand them.

    "...and is there a theme?"

    Because the challenge sentence as presented is discoverable on Google (though thankfully not its solution), I have ordered the words of that sentence alphabetically to thwart an easy search. This should not be a deterrent to your ability to solve it; indeed, I should have been able to just give you the letters all scrambled and by your claims you would be able to solve BOTH the question and the answer.

    "ALAN CODE ENIGMA EXPOSES FOR HALTS HARD IT ROTOR THEIR TURING VISIONARY WAR"

    There are 6.2 trillion ways to order those 13 words, though admittedly far fewer ways to build meaningful sentences. But that's not your problem. Your problem is to find the anagrammed solution -- a solution which happens to contain not one of those 13 words.

    Now for two big helping hints:

    1. The Dorabella Cipher (which, btw, remains unsolved to this day)
    2. "... is there a theme?" Why yes: the word "theme" is in the solution

    Good luck. I will provide more clues if you feel this is unfair or insufficient.
    Do I win an WWII enigma machine if I crack it? ALAN TURING, ENIGMA, VISIONARY, EXPOSES THEIR HARD ROTOR CODE, FOR IT HALTS WAR.

    It took the 5 people six years to decipher the 6 puzzles. And do I have six years?

    https://issuu.com/royalholloway/docs...31216170814_75
    Last edited by Anna Graham; 07-31-2020, 02:18 AM.

    Leave a comment:


  • lowkey
    replied
    My bad ya'll. I'm always missing Chase Songs when I try to post. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

    Leave a comment:


  • lowkey
    replied
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FgS50Y06bnY

    Leave a comment:


  • GoldenFrog
    replied
    'Quest' is more interested in what your words mean to them, rather then what you meant by your words...

    Only the person who says something knows what they meant, and no one else has the right to change your meaning.

    It is unfair in a conversation to twist someone else's words to fit their narrative. Truth is all that matters...

    I am relishing in blocking 'Quest.'

    Leave a comment:


  • Zapster
    replied
    Originally posted by Anna Graham View Post

    Lack the filter, isnt that special. God, you are self righteous Prick Zapster.
    Wow: you're throwing insults before I've even given you the challenge?! If I appear to be "self righteous" it's because I'm an expert cryptanalyst, and I know what is and isn't possible in the anagram world. So yes: boasts like yours happen to annoy me. But rather than waste time slinging counter-insults at you, I choose to try to educate by example.

    "Are you going to tell me the rules of anagramming..."
    There is no need. You clearly understand them.

    "...and is there a theme?"

    Because the challenge sentence as presented is discoverable on Google (though thankfully not its solution), I have ordered the words of that sentence alphabetically to thwart an easy search. This should not be a deterrent to your ability to solve it; indeed, I should have been able to just give you the letters all scrambled and by your claims you would be able to solve BOTH the question and the answer.

    "ALAN CODE ENIGMA EXPOSES FOR HALTS HARD IT ROTOR THEIR TURING VISIONARY WAR"

    There are 6.2 trillion ways to order those 13 words, though admittedly far fewer ways to build meaningful sentences. But that's not your problem. Your problem is to find the anagrammed solution -- a solution which happens to contain not one of those 13 words.

    Now for two big helping hints:

    1. The Dorabella Cipher (which, btw, remains unsolved to this day)
    2. "... is there a theme?" Why yes: the word "theme" is in the solution

    Good luck. I will provide more clues if you feel this is unfair or insufficient.
    Last edited by Zapster; 07-31-2020, 12:18 AM. Reason: Adding the anagram challenge

    Leave a comment:


  • Quest
    replied
    Colorado name comes from Rio Colorado which means Red River

    Montana name means place of many mountains

    New Mexico name comes from Valley Mexico which is a plateau

    So treasure was not found at a red river, a place of many mountains or a plateau.
    It was found in Wyoming (a river flat)

    Hope that gives some closure. Probably less people searched river flats than Yellowstone.

    Leave a comment:


  • Quest
    replied
    Originally posted by GoldenFrog View Post

    Now I'm blocking you...
    Bye bye Diablo

    Leave a comment:


  • GoldenFrog
    replied
    Originally posted by Quest View Post

    Like I said, you stated forrest was a liar and deceiving.

    Neither of the posters you attribute those words to had stated such. They were your words and you can't change that. You created the context. You made false allegations.
    Now I'm blocking you...

    Leave a comment:

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