I was PMed by elperro . . .

[Old Pilot]

You seem to have a lot of oPinions into FF"s motivations, so I thought I'd ask you a couple of questions.
You've stated previously that you don't think FF left the goodies where the poem leads. There may be some good reason to do it that way, and I'm good with all of that. Over the years, I don't think that FF ever saw anyone get really close to solving the poem. There were possibly a lot of erroneous solves, so it wasn't an issue. But, there is just one thing that I'm puzzled about, that frankly bothers me. If the goodies were not where the poem leads, according to your theories, then what was to be done if FF was no longer around when the poem was solved? Alternatively, what if there were a searcher who solved the poem, but never emailed FF, and FF had no idea what was going on behind the scenes? The conclusion that I draw is that there is SOMETHING at the hidey spot that gives further instructions as to what to do. What do you think?
Good luck to you.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I think that Fenn could achieve his 2 goals with no trove being hidden. His goals were
1. Getting people searching
2. Achieving some notoriety/"immortality" for himself.

He has done these things. Regarding whether the trove wasn't found while he's still alive, the poem provides plausible deniability. Here's how that can work: When a clever searcher has solved the
first few (say, about 4 or 5) clues and travelled to the location indicated by them, and is looking for the blaze, several items appear qualified as being the blaze by "standing out". So if one of them is
scrupulously and thoroughly pursued per the poem (i.e., "looking quickly down" after finding the blaze), of course the trove won't be found if it's not there. In turn, each of the other prospective "blazes" may be tried/tested in a similar manner, with similar results (no prize for you, sucker!). I don't guess that it's highly likely that one search team would try all of the items. But even if he/she
did, and (still) found no trove, complaining -- to who? -- would hardly help or prove anything. Other searchers would "pooh-pooh" the solve. And Fenn's achievement of his 2 goals would still stand.

It may be that his reputation is being a bit tarnished these days due to the lawsuit(s), but he has made his mark nonetheless, regardless of ethics or lack of ethics involved. And I won't apologize to
anyone for what I say about all this. Still, I wish good health and a reasonably-deserved bit of happiness to all involved.

[Sherif Billy]

Mr. Pilot:
I respect your opinion but I am sorry to disagree. Certainly, any sane person would question the motives and sincerity of anyone claiming to have hidden a trove of about $1,000,000. Also, I would have given up on solving the puzzle several years ago but for one fact. When Mr. Preston asked me where we had found the blaze and was it a secret, I looked at Forrest and said, "Oh I don't know....Is it a secret Forrest"? Looking back at me sternly he replied, "You tell him". I then replied to Mr. Preston, "It's on the Hondo." Without hesitating, Forrest replied, "That's correct."

My wife has never believed in the treasure nor supported myself or daughter spending time looking and researching it. At least once a week I would have to explain to her the difference between a wealthy sociopath claiming to have hidden a treasure with a poem that couldn't be solved because there really wasn't any solution and an eccentric wealthy philanthropist who hid a trove with clues in a poem that could be solved logically, with a bit of luck and lots of determination.

When Forrest confirmed that the "Blaze" was on the Hondo, he was confirming we were on the correct path. Now I most likely wasn't the first nor the last to tell Forrest I knew where the blaze was. But have you heard anyone else tell you Forrest told them they were "correct"? He couldn't admit the blaze was correct if there was no solution. He had nothing to gain and much more to lose by admitting the location. Simply saying "Nope" would have been far easier. Forrest's admission told us in fact there were clues that could be solved and he wasn't a sociopath.

I think the character of a person is formed in the first twenty years of life. If that is true then the character of Forrest Fenn was cast many years ago, forged in fire and hammered straight and narrow, and then sharpened on a 70-year long wheel. No sir, there was indeed a poem that led to a specific location which concealed a treasure, for one and all to find. (unless he's had a brain transplant)

As the twig is bent;
so grows the tree
seen outside of Boys town'
Omaha, Nebraska
1f

[antigroove]

Mr. Pilot:
I respect your opinion but I am sorry to disagree. Certainly, any sane person would question the motives and sincerity of anyone claiming to have hidden a trove of about $1,000,000. Also, I would have given up on solving the puzzle several years ago but for one fact. When Mr. Preston asked me where we had found the blaze and was it a secret, I looked at Forrest and said, "Oh I don't know....Is it a secret Forrest"? Looking back at me sternly he replied, "You tell him". I then replied to Mr. Preston, "It's on the Hondo." Without hesitating, Forrest replied, "That's correct."

My wife has never believed in the treasure nor supported myself or daughter spending time looking and researching it. At least once a week I would have to explain to her the difference between a wealthy sociopath claiming to have hidden a treasure with a poem that couldn't be solved because there really wasn't any solution and an eccentric wealthy philanthropist who hid a trove with clues in a poem that could be solved logically, with a bit of luck and lots of determination.

When Forrest confirmed that the "Blaze" was on the Hondo, he was confirming we were on the correct path. Now I most likely wasn't the first nor the last to tell Forrest I knew where the blaze was. But have you heard anyone else tell you Forrest told them they were "correct"? He couldn't admit the blaze was correct if there was no solution. He had nothing to gain and much more to lose by admitting the location. Simply saying "Nope" would have been far easier. Forrest's admission told us in fact there were clues that could be solved and he wasn't a sociopath.

I think the character of a person is formed in the first twenty years of life. If that is true then the character of Forrest Fenn was cast many years ago, forged in fire and hammered straight and narrow, and then sharpened on a 70-year long wheel. No sir, there was indeed a poem that led to a specific location which concealed a treasure, for one and all to find. (unless he's had a brain transplant)

As the twig is bent;
so grows the tree
seen outside of Boys town'
Omaha, Nebraska
1f

Since it could be construed that F gave you a private hint, or a confirmation to one, I want to point out that Forrest has been known to agree with boastful searchers just to sidestep actually revealing anything. I will also say that something can be found on the Hondo without it actually being located there.

Having said that, I agree with much of what you have written. What I’ve said may sound like nitpicking, but I think it’s important.

[Tornado]

Since it could be construed that F gave you a private hint, or a confirmation to one, I want to point out that Forrest has been known to agree with boastful searchers just to sidestep actually revealing anything.

Totally agree here. Now how many of you have never met Forrest in person and never emailed him? Or minimally emailed him, but never got a reply? This just adds to the mysterious circumstances and solution.

[Sherif Billy]

Since it could be construed that F gave you a private hint, or a confirmation to one, I want to point out that Forrest has been known to agree with boastful searchers just to sidestep actually revealing anything. I will also say that something can be found on the Hondo without it actually being located there.

Having said that, I agree with much of what you have written. What I’ve said may sound like nitpicking, but I think it’s important.

Maybe.....but it sure didn't come off that way. I don't think he thought anyone had found it, so he wasn't planning on confirming it. He didn't offer or supply any information with me other than saying "That's correct" Then he was stunned a bit and said he didn't know what they were mining there when I asked him.....but after a few moments he regained his composure. Mr. Preston was certainly excited.

1f

[Old blue]

You seem to have a lot of oPinions into FF"s motivations, so I thought I'd ask you a couple of questions.
You've stated previously that you don't think FF left the goodies where the poem leads. There may be some good reason to do it that way, and I'm good with all of that. Over the years, I don't think that FF ever saw anyone get really close to solving the poem. There were possibly a lot of erroneous solves, so it wasn't an issue. But, there is just one thing that I'm puzzled about, that frankly bothers me. If the goodies were not where the poem leads, according to your theories, then what was to be done if FF was no longer around when the poem was solved? Alternatively, what if there were a searcher who solved the poem, but never emailed FF, and FF had no idea what was going on behind the scenes? The conclusion that I draw is that there is SOMETHING at the hidey spot that gives further instructions as to what to do. What do you think?
Good luck to you.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I think that Fenn could achieve his 2 goals with no trove being hidden. His goals were
1. Getting people searching
2. Achieving some notoriety/"immortality" for himself.

He has done these things. Regarding whether the trove wasn't found while he's still alive, the poem provides plausible deniability. Here's how that can work: When a clever searcher has solved the
first few (say, about 4 or 5) clues and travelled to the location indicated by them, and is looking for the blaze, several items appear qualified as being the blaze by "standing out". So if one of them is
scrupulously and thoroughly pursued per the poem (i.e., "looking quickly down" after finding the blaze), of course the trove won't be found if it's not there. In turn, each of the other prospective "blazes" may be tried/tested in a similar manner, with similar results (no prize for you, sucker!). I don't guess that it's highly likely that one search team would try all of the items. But even if he/she
did, and (still) found no trove, complaining -- to who? -- would hardly help or prove anything. Other searchers would "pooh-pooh" the solve. And Fenn's achievement of his 2 goals would still stand.

It may be that his reputation is being a bit tarnished these days due to the lawsuit(s), but he has made his mark nonetheless, regardless of ethics or lack of ethics involved. And I won't apologize to
anyone for what I say about all this. Still, I wish good health and a reasonably-deserved bit of happiness to all involved.

Bad publicity is better than no publicity
I don’t think anything is tarnished with Forrest

[elperro]

OP,
Thank you for taking the time to answer my PM, and in a public way so that all may benefit from the discussion. I appreciate this thought-out response and the many zany and blunt comments you leave around here. Sometimes you leave me scratching my head.
And to Sherif, a gracious response, as usual. Your response indicates to me that you and your daughter captured the magic of the chase, and you simply believed the man (FF) at his word, based on his character. I agree with your assessment.

When you (OP) stated:

“I think that Fenn could achieve his 2 goals with no trove being hidden. His goals were
1. Getting people searching
2. Achieving some notoriety/"immortality" for himself.”

Those 2 goals are admirable and deserved, respectively. I know he achieved the first, and he deserves the second. The poem is, in my opinion, a masterpiece, a work of art, and FF is deserving of praise for it’s genius. He can bend his thoughts, the meanings of words joined together, like white light, through the prism of his mind. The refracted thoughts are expressed and shine out the other edge as a colorful rainbow (please, no snowflake jokes) onto whatever canvas he chooses, whether the written word or with his oral storytelling. He has a gift, a talent, and I’ll always admire him for that.

However, I don’t believe he would try to achieve those 2 goals by also lying about the lure. That was such a key part of this hunt, and would have been an unconscionable fib. All in my judgement, of course. He said he hid a chest of treasure in the mountains and offered a poem for all to solve. He said that if successfully done, led to a real treasure. And, I believed him. I still do. I can see it in his eyes when he talks. I’m not a religious person, but more on this in a second.

That being said, I’ve heard and read all the negative shade thrown on FF’s past and alleged dubious character. I’m only human, and when I see this, my doubts ebb and flow like the changing of the tides. But, in the end, the gravitational pull of MY OWN perception of his “spirit” or “being” or “character” (whatever you want to call it) is like that of the full moon. It was and is enough to keep my boots on the ground. I’ll search until I’m satisfied that I haven’t left anything “buckled up,” so to speak.

[hfywc]

You seem to have a lot of oPinions into FF"s motivations, so I thought I'd ask you a couple of questions.
You've stated previously that you don't think FF left the goodies where the poem leads.

wait... what? mr fenn didn’t left the chest where it is supposed to be? how in the world did the finder located it then?

[Old Pilot]

wait... what? mr fenn didn’t left the chest where it is supposed to be? how in the world did the finder located it then?

There are several theories about this. One theory is that he "hacked" someone's file(s), and used information he hadn't independently developed.
Another theory is that he stumbled upon the trove.
Another theory is that FF told him where to search.
Another theory is that the finder is FF, who is most certainly "back east" compared to someone/somewhere/something. He's no dummy, although his character may be in question.

[Old Pilot]

Maybe.....but it sure didn't come off that way. I don't think he thought anyone had found it, so he wasn't planning on confirming it. He didn't offer or supply any information with me other than saying "That's correct" Then he was stunned a bit and said he didn't know what they were mining there when I asked him.....but after a few moments he regained his composure. Mr. Preston was certainly excited.

1f

Please pardon my reluctance to believe anything about the blaze being within a hundred miles of the Hondo. FF has said that he reserves the right to make a mistake. This can be used as an "out" if we "hold his feet to the fire" over something he said (such as confirming that "the blaze is on the Hondo"). He can later say that he made a mistake saying "that's correct". For example, he could claim that he didn't hear correctly what was said. None of this is rocket science. I think he may already be "feeling the heat" about "having his feet held to the fire". It's sad for things to be unraveling this way (even from his point of view, hoping to sell the trove for up to $10 million or so). The way it looks to me now is that he has the trove in his possession, no buyer, and interest in all of this is fading fast. Oh, and let's not forget that he's got several lawsuits to deal with. How many more will be filed is anybody's guess.

[BiggishShoes]

Mr. Pilot:
I respect your opinion but I am sorry to disagree. Certainly, any sane person would question the motives and sincerity of anyone claiming to have hidden a trove of about $1,000,000. Also, I would have given up on solving the puzzle several years ago but for one fact. When Mr. Preston asked me where we had found the blaze and was it a secret, I looked at Forrest and said, "Oh I don't know....Is it a secret Forrest"? Looking back at me sternly he replied, "You tell him". I then replied to Mr. Preston, "It's on the Hondo." Without hesitating, Forrest replied, "That's correct."

you heard 'that's correct' but the Cant Sir can make magic enter your ears. 'that's curve wrecked' for example. (see creened)

plus you we're happy cheating with a private hint, like the boy who swapped papers in your class. if that was me i would have come on here and made it public in an instant.

tut tut Sherif, arrest yourself

[hfywc]

There are several theories about this. One theory is that he "hacked" someone's file(s), and used information he hadn't independently developed.
Another theory is that he stumbled upon the trove.
Another theory is that FF told him where to search.
Another theory is that the finder is FF, who is most certainly "back east" compared to someone/somewhere/something. He's no dummy, although his character may be in question.

with this covid virus going on, my thoughts tell
me that mr fenn was forced to retrieve the chest to prevent anyone from traveling and at the same time, is somewhat frustrated with the eventual finder for taking time in locating the chest.

like you op, im hoping that something good will come out of this soon.

[5-leaf Blaze]

Can we please compile a list of lies for GoldenFrog? Yeah, that Hondo thing lol. Lie. Forrest called himself a liar many times. I ask you, why does he have to keep announcing everything?
BLAMMO

[Sherif Billy]

you heard 'that's correct' but the Cant Sir can make magic enter your ears. 'that's curve wrecked' for example. (see creened)

plus you we're happy cheating with a private hint, like the boy who swapped papers in your class. if that was me i would have come on here and made it public in an instant.

tut tut Sherif, arrest yourself

You'll have to make a citizens arrest Mr. Big .....
you'll never catch me....I'm on the run
1f

[BiggishShoes]

You'll have to make a citizens arrest Mr. Big .....
you'll never catch me....I'm on the run
1f

Who said anything about catching you? i'm running with you. to the hills >>