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  • Sorry Not Sorry

    “Well you know, it’s out of my hands now really. When I hid that treasure chest, there was nobody around. And I was walking back to my car and I looked around and I started laughing. And I said out loud, Forrest Fenn did you really do that? And I started laughing. I thought it was the most atrocious thing that I’d ever done. But, in the back of my mind, I told myself that if I’m sorry tomorrow, I can go back and get the treasure chest. But the more I thought about it, I said, no I’m not going to do it. And I told myself it’s out of my hands now. I’m an interested bystander at this point.”

    This is a fascinating choice of words. Definition of atrocious

    1: extremely wicked, brutal, or cruel : BARBARIC prisoners subjected to atrocious treatment
    2: APPALLING, HORRIFYING the atrocious weapons of modern war; an atrocious accident
    3a: utterly revolting : ABOMINABLE atrocious working conditions atrocious weather
    b: of very poor quality atrocious handwriting

    There is something about the how or the where the treasure is hidden that is cruel. Something that he recognized he could possibly be sorry for the next day, but with thought and time, decided he wasn't going to be remorseful enough to retrieve the chest, and as such this choice just makes him an interested bystander.

    The word bystander is often paired with the word innocent rather than "interested."

    So something cruel enough that he considered he might be remorseful enough to change/retrieve at a later time.....but didn't. And he justified not changing his mind by telling himself it is out of his hands and he is just a (not so "innocent") interested
    bystander at this point?

    Any thoughts?

  • #2
    KSfromKS: it seems to me that Forrest occasionally likes to use a word that is similar sounding to the proper word choice, and all the better if the wrong word is in some way funny, ironic, or contradictory. In this instance, perhaps he was originally going to use the word "outrageous." The best example that pops to mind (where the correct word choice was more obvious) was when he was contrasting his writing style to that of William F. Buckley: "That's okay with me because our composing modes are diabolically opposed to each other." Pretty clear the correct word in this context would have been "diametrically."

    Comment


    • #3
      KsfromKS,
      Thanks for posting this. I've also wondered about what "atrocious" means. Forrest has said repeatedly that it's not in a dangerous location, so I think we can rule that out. Maybe the treasure is buried in something yucky like a mud pit. Or maybe there's something about the location that presents the finder with an ethical dilemma (I think there's even someone on Dal's who uses the handle EthicalDilemma). For example what if you have to cross private property to get to the treasure (not saying you would - just using that as an example). I don't know. This is one of the more confusing things I've seen.

      Comment


      • #4
        Hi Zapster,

        I agree with your point that FF likes to choose words that are ironic, contradictory, etc. I could probably get beyond his comment and seen him meaning something more along the lines of "outrageous" as you suggested, except that he mentions that he justified it by telling himself if he felt apologetic at a later time, he could change some aspect about it. So that does seem to imply some kind of choice about how/where the treasure is hidden that caused him to think that he might at a later time feel apologetic for. With time and though he later decides his only role is to be an interested bystander.

        Please understand I am not implying that this atrocity was aimed at searchers per say. I don't believe Fenn has mislead us in any way about the hunt. But I DO believe that understanding the things he has told us, can help provide a picture of clarity in regards to how/where the treasure chest is. He didn't have to tell us this, so in my mind, that tells me there is something in his statement worthy of further examination.

        Comment


        • #5
          ksfromKS

          Maybe it is something we must brave.

          Seannm

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by ksfromKS View Post
            “Well you know, it’s out of my hands now really. When I hid that treasure chest, there was nobody around. And I was walking back to my car and I looked around and I started laughing. And I said out loud, Forrest Fenn did you really do that? And I started laughing. I thought it was the most atrocious thing that I’d ever done. But, in the back of my mind, I told myself that if I’m sorry tomorrow, I can go back and get the treasure chest. But the more I thought about it, I said, no I’m not going to do it. And I told myself it’s out of my hands now. I’m an interested bystander at this point.”

            This is a fascinating choice of words. Definition of atrocious

            1: extremely wicked, brutal, or cruel : BARBARIC prisoners subjected to atrocious treatment
            2: APPALLING, HORRIFYING the atrocious weapons of modern war; an atrocious accident
            3a: utterly revolting : ABOMINABLE atrocious working conditions atrocious weather
            b: of very poor quality atrocious handwriting

            There is something about the how or the where the treasure is hidden that is cruel. Something that he recognized he could possibly be sorry for the next day, but with thought and time, decided he wasn't going to be remorseful enough to retrieve the chest, and as such this choice just makes him an interested bystander.

            The word bystander is often paired with the word innocent rather than "interested."

            So something cruel enough that he considered he might be remorseful enough to change/retrieve at a later time.....but didn't. And he justified not changing his mind by telling himself it is out of his hands and he is just a (not so "innocent") interested
            bystander at this point?

            Any thoughts?
            I think Forrest used the word "atrocious" because the finder may say on their walk back to their car " The audacity of that man " (meaning boldness).

            Seeing as atrocious also means monstrous which means big.
            With Forrest a person has to think ahead with the meanings of words he uses.
            Maybe he wanted to be "frightful" with his remark.
            Last edited by TreasureCodex; 07-11-2019, 07:36 PM.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Redneck Girl View Post
              KsfromKS,
              Thanks for posting this. I've also wondered about what "atrocious" means. Forrest has said repeatedly that it's not in a dangerous location, so I think we can rule that out. Maybe the treasure is buried in something yucky like a mud pit. Or maybe there's something about the location that presents the finder with an ethical dilemma (I think there's even someone on Dal's who uses the handle EthicalDilemma). For example what if you have to cross private property to get to the treasure (not saying you would - just using that as an example). I don't know. This is one of the more confusing things I've seen.
              Redneck Girl,

              That is similar to what I was thinking, and maybe inline with what Zapster, SeanM, and TreasureCodex are thinking. I have two crafty boys. When I hide presents, I have to get pretty clever. When they were smaller, I often placed things above their eye level. As they got older, I had to get more creative in the places I hid things because they learned to climb. I'm sure if any of you are parents, you can relate. His comment made me think of that, the kind of good humored orneriness that might go with a treasure hunt.

              But I also suspect Fenn likes to make a point, and he seems to be good at killing two birds with one stone. So my thought process has me wondering if he is being ornery with us (the searchers) as well as making a quietly explicit haha "na-na-na-boo-boo" type statement of sorts to another type of entity. If this were your treasure hunt, how would you do both? I know I have been so focused on solving for the location, I haven't really considered some of these things, and I wonder how they might help or hurt a search.

              Is there a way to make the chest "invisible" so that even someone who has solved the poem, may miss it on a botg trip or multiple trips to the same location? If so, how creative do we need to get with our botg efforts? Any thoughts?

              P.S. Thanks for the good thoughts, and my thanks for your time!

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by ksfromKS View Post

                Redneck Girl,

                That is similar to what I was thinking, and maybe inline with what Zapster, SeanM, and TreasureCodex are thinking. I have two crafty boys. When I hide presents, I have to get pretty clever. When they were smaller, I often placed things above their eye level. As they got older, I had to get more creative in the places I hid things because they learned to climb. I'm sure if any of you are parents, you can relate. His comment made me think of that, the kind of good humored orneriness that might go with a treasure hunt.

                But I also suspect Fenn likes to make a point, and he seems to be good at killing two birds with one stone. So my thought process has me wondering if he is being ornery with us (the searchers) as well as making a quietly explicit haha "na-na-na-boo-boo" type statement of sorts to another type of entity. If this were your treasure hunt, how would you do both? I know I have been so focused on solving for the location, I haven't really considered some of these things, and I wonder how they might help or hurt a search.

                Is there a way to make the chest "invisible" so that even someone who has solved the poem, may miss it on a botg trip or multiple trips to the same location? If so, how creative do we need to get with our botg efforts? Any thoughts?

                P.S. Thanks for the good thoughts, and my thanks for your time!
                Agreed ! Forrest sure can spin up a " double entendre ".

                Comment


                • #9
                  It was the most atrocious thing he'd ever done.
                  Your effort will be worth the cold.

                  atrocious = cold
                  https://www.classicthesaurus.com/atrocious/synonyms/5

                  There's another thread with thoughts on it here :
                  https://www.hintofriches.com/forum/t...-i-d-ever-done

                  In my opinion, it has everything to do with where it's hidden.
                  It works excellent in my understanding of the poem.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    He's being naughty, and he thinks its funny. It sounds like there's normally people around, at least some of the time. Wherever retrieval zone is will require effort, perhaps others will observe, even on the news, and it will take time. It's seems kinda spooky. Or Maybe its what's inside thats obnoxious, I mean atrocious. And he just twice said privy, ewww. Or a sewer. We're surprised and wondering, why didn't I think of that.
                    Last edited by khan; 07-11-2019, 10:04 PM.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by khan View Post
                      He's being naughty, and he thinks its funny. It sounds like there's normally people around, at least some of the time. Wherever retrieval zone is will require effort, perhaps others will observe, even on the news, and it will take time. It's seems kinda spooky. Or Maybe its what's inside thats obnoxious, I mean atrocious. And he just twice said privy, ewww.
                      I've dug "privies" . Land records, trust names. Stuff that is peoples privy properties.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by whiskynovember

                        Eventually Fennspeak tunes ones ear to certain corruptive, creative echos. There's the thing you expect and the thing replacing it, both borrowing from and defacing each other, ultimately to resonate in a third meta-thing that literally isn't on the page. I heard 'audacious' when reading 'atrocious', in the same, but different, way I (un)heard 'innocent' when reading 'interested'.

                        In ten more years, as the Chase further evolves, there will be a mass gathering at a yet unknown Rocky Mountain equivalent of Devil's Tower, everyone compelled by a relentless auditory brainworm.
                        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Devils_Tower

                        United States first National Monument.

                        Them wormholes are relentless ! LOL

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                        • #13
                          Atrocious does seem to be too harsh of a word...but it probably does give credence to "whoever finds it is gonna earn it."

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            It certainly makes one think. You gotta earn it. Yeah. Probably more than any of us realizes. At the end of the day though it is a treasure hunt and it’s not supposed to be easy.

                            I still like to believe a person can solve the poem and that the one who does ought to have a general idea of the time required and be able to plan accordingly. Then again life has a way of throwing curve balls so who knows. The movie “the Martian” comes to mind. Until one of us reaches the end no one can be certain of the final outcome. Certainly one won’t reach the end though if they lack tenacity or if they stop believing.

                            Considering the difficulty in solving the puzzle it would not surprise me if we all find ourselves still trying to reach the end come next season. I suppose there are worse things, but that is a worry for another day. This season is just getting started and anything is possible.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              It would be my opinion, for the search community to believe that Forrest hid a treasure worth a couple of millions dollars. You then would have to believe he means exactly what he said about where it is hidden........ATROCIOUS. However this doesn’t have to mean dangerous. It could mean very difficult to locate. Maybe the poem doesn’t give you an exact spot ( like an X ) but a general location that could take years of searching to locate the TC.

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