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  • Degree Course

    Let's imagine for a moment that when we first encounter the poem we're like freshmen at university. We're a bit green and not very knowledgeable, but after the first lecture we're fired up with enthusiasm and believe we've got the subject licked. Who needs four years? Then reality bites.

    I expect many of us have approached our first solution a little like this. We become fixated with a particular WWWH because there's a suitable canyon plus something Brownish not too far away. Our initial BOTG experience is usually salutary.

    So if we're on a four-year degree course, after we've been introduced to the subject the hard work begins. It's not a question of trying to sit the finals early, but of studying earnestly and using precious lab time to practice and hone our skills. In the first couple of years we have no real idea of what the depth and content of the final exams will be, and that is how it should be. Little by little we acquire what's necessary to graduate.

    In the Chase, it may be similar. There is no quick fix. But it is necessary to make a start, and to use the time after the first wide-eyed enthusiasm has faded to listen and learn. That means accepting that we are uncertain what FF means by WWWH and hoB etc., (those are senior year subjects) but believing that, with diligence, what we need will be revealed in time. Patience and perseverance will be required in spades.

    I believe that, like Forrest said, "The clues can lead you to the treasure." How? By letting them do their work. The "lecturers" and "tutors" will give us the foundation we need and provide leadership, but we have to show up, listen, and think. And follow. Not crash ahead, but follow! And since all those hot springs, warm springs, geysers, Continental Divide places, river confluences, Brown mountains, people, and creeks have fallen short so far, it may be wise to consider that these are not what Forrest has in mind at all for the early clues. But since we do need to make a start, like our eager freshmen, we will still need some geographical spot from which to plot our course, while understanding that it may not be the actual WWWH.

    Suppose our degree is in medicine. When we first arrive at university, they're certainly not going to let us practice on real patients, but they may require us to study anatomy on a cadaver, and shadow professionals or older students. So they give us a substitute or "phantom" experience to allow us to develop the necessary skills. What if the Chase is like that? We must learn the ropes on something that doesn't require the same profound level of responsibility as a "living human subject," but closely resembles it - and listen carefully to the professionals. Now I believe that there is at least one area that allows us to do that, but I'm increasingly minded to think that there may be a number of such places, and that once we've worked out the rudiments of Forrest's system, we'll be able to apply it using his map (poem) and logic to find the place to actually "begin."

    So in the end, the first clue is not a 101 subject, IMO, but a graduate-level test. That's when we begin our career - but there's a heck of a lot of work to do before we'll be let loose with the scalpel!
    Last edited by voxpops; 06-10-2019, 03:49 PM.

  • #2
    Interesting ! But what about us that have had the pattern figured out from the beginning ? Like the first 1.5 hours and have not found anything better since. I'm the type to go to University and show them a thing or two and when I don't receive an Honorary Doctorate I realize they still don't get it and refuse to ever get it. It's not always about rote memory of a subject meaning both person and the matter. Intelligence is how we use the material.
    Last edited by TreasureCodex; 06-10-2019, 03:16 PM.

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    • #3
      Originally posted by TreasureCodex View Post
      Interesting ! But what about us that have had the pattern figured out from the beginning ? Like the first 1.5 hours and have not found anything better since. I'm the type to go to University and show them a thing or two and when I don't receive an Honorary Doctorate I realize they still don't get it and refuse to ever get it. It's not always about rote memory of a subject meaning both person and the matter. Intelligence is how we use the material.
      I think if we go to university and all we get is rote memory of a subject we should demand our money back! Universities used to be places that taught you how to think. I hope they still are. But that's beside the point. What I'm talking about is a completely different approach to the poem - not one where you come up with a WWWH and go from there, but one where you learn how to solve the poem before you can even begin to discover WWWH; one where you uncover and practice the methodology somewhere that will enable you to gradually understand what FF is talking about. It's a long haul!

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      • #4
        Originally posted by voxpops View Post

        I think if we go to university and all we get is rote memory of a subject we should demand our money back! Universities used to be places that taught you how to think. I hope they still are. But that's beside the point. What I'm talking about is a completely different approach to the poem - not one where you come up with a WWWH and go from there, but one where you learn how to solve the poem before you can even begin to discover WWWH; one where you uncover and practice the methodology somewhere that will enable you to gradually understand what FF is talking about. It's a long haul!
        This is what I've come to realize is how to solve the poem - you have to learn the how, in order to do. It took me years to finally now see some of the things I've been missing, but I still do not have it all, it's not complicated, but it does require us to take it one step at a time.

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        • #5
          I agree, RahRah, I think most of us have been trying to run before we can walk.

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          • #6
            The Rosetta Stone was used to decipher the Rosetta Stone.
            (And coincidentally, it was rediscovered by a French soldier.)

            I'm of the opinion that it will be proven that the poem itself is what will decipher the poem.
            Most everything that Forrest has given us since the poem is simply his way of trying to help us understand how to read the poem.

            Begin it where warm waters halt.
            That line, isolated from the rest of the poem, tells me exactly what warm waters are, and where they halt.
            The first stanza lays it out, for confirmation.
            And there are further confirmations found throughout the poem.

            All IMO.

            What's a unique, never-before-revealed on any forum wwwh worth ?
            Money can't buy it, it's priceless.
            Daniel Castro (Blues)
            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PNCrfKtA3lE

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            • #7
              Originally posted by ROLL TIDE View Post
              I'm of the opinion that it will be proven that the poem itself is what will decipher the poem.
              Most everything that Forrest has given us since the poem is simply his way of trying to help us understand how to read the poem..
              I totally agree. To me it is self-contained and self-confirming.

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              • #8
                The last clue confirms the entire poem, from the first to the last line... it is sad that the last clue only reveals itself at the end of its journey (which is not the blaze)... but... only if its WWWH is the correct (which is not water)...

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                • #9
                  Anyone that continues to refuse to read the actual instructions at the beginning of the test (in this case book) will never be able to pass this class, IMO.

                  TTOTC Dust Jacket:
                  "This memoir includes a true story about a secret treasure and an outrageous dare. 'Unlock the clues that are scattered among these pages and you can go home with a bronze chest that is so full of gold and precious jewelry that it’s almost too heavy for one person to carry.'"

                  Poem-purists, I'm looking right at you. How you can read that and actually think you don't need the book, minus the poem in it, I will simply never understand.

                  mm
                  If you would like to know my W.W.W.H., get a list of over 600 G.N.I.S. potential ones, and another list of 5,000 searchable springs with coordinate information, you can literally buy it here for $25: https://www.ebay.com/itm/283499665615

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by ROLL TIDE View Post
                    The Rosetta Stone was used to decipher the Rosetta Stone.
                    (And coincidentally, it was rediscovered by a French soldier.)

                    I'm of the opinion that it will be proven that the poem itself is what will decipher the poem.
                    Most everything that Forrest has given us since the poem is simply his way of trying to help us understand how to read the poem.

                    Begin it where warm waters halt.
                    That line, isolated from the rest of the poem, tells me exactly what warm waters are, and where they halt.
                    The first stanza lays it out, for confirmation.
                    And there are further confirmations found throughout the poem.

                    All IMO.

                    What's a unique, never-before-revealed on any forum wwwh worth ?
                    Money can't buy it, it's priceless.
                    The WWWH I have not either seen on any forum.
                    But people would not believe it was correct unless they think they had discovered it.
                    Sure there are some just gathering large amounts of other peoples ideas and creating databases from the data.
                    I don't see any of them understanding enough to get passed jump street.

                    And for Vox, Universities do still teach students "how" to think. But it is at the wrong level. It is political and sociological, not to mention un-American.

                    I'm talking about free thinkers that think outside of the box and therefor still understand what the box is.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by minotaur_moreno View Post
                      Anyone that continues to refuse to read the actual instructions at the beginning of the test (in this case book) will never be able to pass this class, IMO.

                      TTOTC Dust Jacket:
                      "This memoir includes a true story about a secret treasure and an outrageous dare. 'Unlock the clues that are scattered among these pages and you can go home with a bronze chest that is so full of gold and precious jewelry that it’s almost too heavy for one person to carry.'"

                      Poem-purists, I'm looking right at you. How you can read that and actually think you don't need the book, minus the poem in it, I will simply never understand.

                      mm
                      Well ... that pretty much sums up what I've been saying for months. The "Gold and more" chapter is the only one worth studying.

                      One more detail: The poem is precisely in this chapter.

                      I think we're still purists, and rightly so.

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                      • #12
                        Nobody can prove they know anything until they have the chest. Many are confident. But few are on the right path. You don't need to know why the poem was written to maybe get lucky. But if you can figure out the controversial subject forrest wanted to expose. It could lead you to his " answer i already know". Forrest was so diversed in so many things. Which makes his "where" so hard to figure out what he wanted us to know. But here a few.
                        1-Archeolgy find. Maybe he found one of the spanish chests he had the 5 keys for from his plueblo. Probably not. But He's already uncovered history changing artifacts. So my moneys on aomething historical. Maybe shun a few educated experts for fun.
                        2- Governmental/ military power cover up or conspiracy. There's a couple spots in the Rocky Mountains purposely blocked out on Google earth.?? The Land seizures in east New Mexico.? Forrest was on the historical committee trying to stop it the eminute domain that happened. . He was friends with very many high power political people. Maybe one let him in on a secret. Then you always got the big companys raping the enviroment.
                        3- The one thing nobodys thought of yet? The word that is key? He told us 2 of the clues. WWWH and the blaze. He's given us 100's of hints. Yet the processes of elimination have not gone far enough for someone to go with confidence. . If you're fearful someone will get there before you. They probably won't. So no need to run. Slow down, take a deep breath and enjoy the walk.
                        4 - Honoring the past.? I'll give you my wrong but interesting solve on that next week. I hoped i can handle what i think Forrest achieved. . I still believe it's a lot more then just a stroll in the park. But who knows. Maybe it's just a pleasurable bike ride to the high waters.
                        Last edited by Sunburnt1; 06-10-2019, 07:29 PM.

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                        • #13
                          Many universities have extensive hands-on study and exploration. Just because most of the courses during the fall and spring semesters seem to be mostly information gathering does not mean that the intersessions and summers are time off to party. Serious students use those sessions to get deep into the curriculum be it near their home of in another country or in the wilderness of all countries.

                          This sounds opposite in the initial blogs years ago. People use to avoid the tutors - those park rangers and staff - and sneak and hide in the darkness to search and dig. Glad to see the emphasis on learning from outside sources that one encounters when exploring something new. I would like to point out - as having studied at universities - that it is up to the learner to select and enhance the minimal directed curriculum with emphasis and experience from outside courses and exchange university samplings to create the best possible learning experience.

                          Finally, IMO there is zero learning when one just takes someone else's answers from their paper or adventure. Learning is a personal experience and there are no cheat sheets or short cuts. Hopefully, the instructors and tutors are pleasant people who guide the learner to the curriculum and not those professors who use the students' work to publish their own thesis or dissertation. The best colleges within universities are where professors (committee of 3) and student(s) work together. It is more than earning the 'scapel' but developing the continuation of research and application as a goal. The circle of learning like the circle in the Big Picture.

                          My thought also is to be cautious when selecting tutors. Just because someone has been at it a long time and rambles and interjects often and immediately like a dear Abby, does not mean they are a good source for progression. The main instructor does not provide a guided tour and does not just give answers, though he guides the student to the sources and resources and does so according to each student - serious student(s). Does providing information in code that seems to help some students more than others seem unfair? No. Some students are ready while others lag behind. Most students learn at different paces and with different learning styles and it is just a matter of acknowledging those differences and not holding students back while everyone waits for everyone. It is also not a matter of time put in or number of BOTG, but a matter of intent, learning, and effort put in that is directed. Too many want the guided tour or just lecture and run out once and be done with it. Learners don't need to be told WWWH as a matter of fact, it hinders them rather than helps because they skip vital steps. It is best to not discuss the specific WWWH or hoB or blaze but what it might mean and how it is incorporated. The map IMO is not just filled with 9 markers and as soon as it is on paper, it is the end of the game. It is just the beginning.

                          Sure the memoir has a true story - a true story contained within and maybe you can go home with a bronze box. But I think if you search for a bronze box, you most likely will never find it. Education at the university level requires not worshipping the professor and does require learning from him. There are enough artifacts in the chase, I doubt time is needed for the arts and crafts of creating more. That seems to be spring break stuff. Fennborees can be residences where students gather but without other adventures planned they are just 'watering holes' of intoxication and more wasteful than useful. IMO I've met some wonderful people and professionals in the chase since 2014 - none of whom are searchers. Getting involved, I met more than park rangers, but people whose careers are in some of the specifics in the learning adventure. One even hiked with me this year. We had a blast and I could see his intrigue as I learned more about another world.
                          Last edited by Fogel; 06-10-2019, 06:17 PM. Reason: addition

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Sunburnt1 View Post
                            Nobody can prove they know anything until they have the chest. Many are confident. But few are on the right path. You don't need to know why the poem was written to maybe get lucky. But if you can figure out the controversial subject forrest wanted to expose. It could lead you to his " answer i already know". Forrest was so diversed in so many things. Which makes his "where" so hard to figure out what he wanted us to know. But here a few.
                            1-Archeolgy find. Maybe he found one of the spanish chests he had the 5 keys for from his plueblo. Probably not. But He's already uncovered history changing artifacts. So my moneys on aomething historical. Maybe shun a rew educated experts for fun.
                            2- governmental/ military power cover up or conspiracy. There's a couple spots in the Rocky Mountains purposely blocked out on Google earth.?? The Land seizures in east New Mexico.? Forrest was on the historical committee trying to stop it the eminute domain that happened. . He was friends with very many high power political people. Maybe one let him in on a secret. Then you always got the big companys raping the enviroment.
                            3- the one thing nobodys thought of yet.... He told us 2 of the clues. WWWH and the blaze. He's given us 100's of hints. Yet the processes of elimination have not gone far enough for someone to go with confidence. . If you're fearful someone will get there before you. They probably wont. So no need to run. Slow dow, take a deep breath and enjoy the walk.
                            4 - Honoring the past I'll give you my wrong but interesting solve on that next week. I hoped i can handle what i think Forrest achieved. . I still believe it's a lot more then just a stroll in the park. But who knows. Maybe it's just a pleasurable bike ride to the high waters.
                            I disagree with a few things. 1. he knows where the five Spanish trunks are. IMO he knows at least one on a detailed level. 2. I doubt that he would even elude to a secret that must remain that way. 3 Narcissists boast about friends in high places; those who are in that circle don't brag but function there. 4. you don't have the 'intel' as to whether someone is walking with confidence because that would not have been released though there is no need to run but a need to learn. Education is a journey and involves study and exploration, it is never a stroll in the park. What I'd like to consider is why - if this is an education - do so many believe only one single person/student can earn the prize at the end? Hence, the no rush to the end. Hear me all . . . Since when does any university graduate one student when many can complete the requirements? Something to seriously think about. IMO

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                            • #15
                              I hope he did find the Spanish chests. If so. I would say close to Angel Fire erea. I would think ot for sure not environmental or political. Because it might not be found for a hundred years. So that almost narrows it down to historical.

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